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Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Daybreak Expansion» Forums » Variants

Subject: Moar Treachery! rss

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Aurélien Defossez
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Since the dawn of the treachery cards with the Pegasus expansion, I always wanted to see more treachery cards played. Therefore, we played with a little house-rule to see them more often (at the start of the game and at sleeper phase, every player draws a treachery card, and every treachery discarded goes to the destiny pile).

But the new Daybreak treacheries are more bad-ass and have official rules when you discard them (for some of them anyway: draw a mutiny), so we forgot our house-rule. But the treacheries were too few in numbers again, so I tried this variant and people liked it:

[obsolete]
When you create the skill decks or must shuffle one, add treachery card to the deck. Therefore, some player will be awarded treachery cards instead of regular cards.

Edit:
After the destiny deck has been created for the first time, shuffle a treachery card in each skill deck before players draw their cards.
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Didjor wrote:
Since the dawn of the treachery cards with the Pegasus expansion, I always wanted to see more treachery cards played. Therefore, we played with a little house-rule to see them more often (at the start of the game and at sleeper phase, every player draws a treachery card, and every treachery discarded goes to the destiny pile).

But the new Daybreak treacheries are more bad-ass and have official rules when you discard them (for some of them anyway: draw a mutiny), so we forgot our house-rule. But the treacheries were too few in numbers again, so I tried this variant and people liked it:

When you create the skill decks or must shuffle one, add treachery card to the deck. Therefore, some player will be awarded treachery cards instead of regular cards.


IMO, at least not yet anyways, I don't think Daybreak Treachery has to be more 'out there'. Perhaps so for Pegasus ones. For the folks that do go ahead with this, when you create DD (Destiny Deck), it's OK if 1 or more Treachery from the non-tr skill card decks end up in DD then?

That said, looks interesting, and can have potential for Peg tr. It may be too much for Day tr.
 
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Aurélien Defossez
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Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention this. We create the destiny deck before adding a treachery card to each deck (and we take 3 cards of each deck, not just 2). Of course, when you refill the destiny deck, it's possible to have more treacheries in it.

We tried this variant only once, I'll come back with better feedback after a few other games.
 
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Kwijiboe
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I don't understand these changes. Are humans winning too much?

Daybreak treachery is extremely potent: funneling cards to players randomly is troublesome.

In addition, players with strong draws (3+) are more likely to draw treachery via skill decks. Consider that, players with strong draws are usually the President or Admiral....

Probably too much power for a Cylon player.
 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
In addition, players with strong draws (3+) are more likely to draw treachery via skill decks. Consider that, players with strong draws are usually the President or Admiral....
?? Are you referring to the characters who draw 3 of a color? So Tory and Roslin are "yellow monsters", Adama and Cain are "green monsters", while Saul and Cain are "purple monsters"?

If so, how does that alone cause them to draw more Treachery?
 
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Robert Stewart
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ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
In addition, players with strong draws (3+) are more likely to draw treachery via skill decks. Consider that, players with strong draws are usually the President or Admiral....
?? Are you referring to the characters who draw 3 of a color? So Tory and Roslin are "yellow monsters", Adama and Cain are "green monsters", while Saul and Cain are "purple monsters"?

If so, how does that alone cause them to draw more Treachery?


There is a marginal effect - if a player draws three from a deck, that deck is slightly more likely to cycle faster, so will produce more Treachery over the course of the game, and the characters which draw most from that deck are more likely to get the extra Treachery.

If you have a crew with a balanced skill set, then all 5 main skill decks will cycle at the same rate, so each skill card drawn has the same chance of being Treachery, whichever deck it comes from. Actually, there are some additional effects based on how each colour gets hoarded, but we're already in an unrealistic scenario anyway...
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rmsgrey wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Kwijiboe wrote:
In addition, players with strong draws (3+) are more likely to draw treachery via skill decks. Consider that, players with strong draws are usually the President or Admiral....
?? Are you referring to the characters who draw 3 of a color? So Tory and Roslin are "yellow monsters", Adama and Cain are "green monsters", while Saul and Cain are "purple monsters"?

If so, how does that alone cause them to draw more Treachery?


There is a marginal effect - if a player draws three from a deck, that deck is slightly more likely to cycle faster, so will produce more Treachery over the course of the game, and the characters which draw most from that deck are more likely to get the extra Treachery.

If you have a crew with a balanced skill set, then all 5 main skill decks will cycle at the same rate, so each skill card drawn has the same chance of being Treachery, whichever deck it comes from. Actually, there are some additional effects based on how each colour gets hoarded, but we're already in an unrealistic scenario anyway...


I completely forgot the context of the variant.! blush

EDIT: added emoticon seems appropriate
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Aurélien Defossez
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Quote:
I don't understand these changes. Are humans winning too much?

No, but I have many reasons to play with such variants:
- As I said, I want to see more treacheries in the game
- When the rules change, player always have a new interest in the game, so I like to try new variants when we play
- Like in Pandemic, most house-rules are here to make the game harder, not easier, we like challenge

Quote:
In addition, players with strong draws (3+) are more likely to draw treachery via skill decks. Consider that, players with strong draws are usually the President or Admiral....

Yeah, some players may draw treacheries more often, but it does not bother me at all. It's even better, because players drawing 3 cards have usually 2 different colors (except Dualla and Foster), and it's hard for them to play a bad card in a skill check without being seen.

Still, I understand your remarks, the sole purpose of this rule is to make the game harder for humans.
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Kwijiboe
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You said earlier it was because you like seeing treachery played.

In any case, I think placing untraceable treachery in players hands is problematic. There's no way to determine where it came from.

E.g. Players consistently discard treachery to prove loyalty. Especially after an extra treachery shows up from destiny. (They prove that it wasn't them who put in the treachery card.

This play becomes impossible with random treachery draws. It's very hard to use deductive reasoning unless the spiked treachery came from a small pool of players.
 
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Kwijiboe wrote:
You said earlier it was because you like seeing treachery played.

In any case, I think placing untraceable treachery in players hands is problematic. There's no way to determine where it came from.

E.g. Players consistently discard treachery to prove loyalty. Especially after an extra treachery shows up from destiny. (They prove that it wasn't them who put in the treachery card.

This play becomes impossible with random treachery draws. It's very hard to use deductive reasoning unless the spiked treachery came from a small pool of players.
I believe this still goes towards the "making the game more difficult". Folks already use variants like hidden discards and complex DD to keep players who can card count very accurately. And of course there's already the standard secrecy rules. This could add another layer of intrigue as you don't know if someone who drew 2 green really did get just that or just 1 green and 1 tr instead. And if playing with Daybreak, they may not want to discard it if it's a 0.
 
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Robert
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I like this variant. It adds another layer of uncertainty and enables new ways of intigue for unrevealed Cylons, especially when playing with Pegasus Treachery. Thanks for posting it!
 
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Aurélien Defossez
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We just played again with this variant, humans barely won, because the game was way too long (going to earth, destinations were 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 3) so the decks were reshuffled many times, and there were treacheries everywhere. We always has mutiny and treacheries in our hands, and know the cell bricks by heart.

We won but it was really using a lot of luck, and this variant clearly is not viable in most games.

What I propose instead is:
After the destiny deck has been created for the first time, shuffle a treachery card in each skill deck before players draw their cards.

This way, we still have some treacheries, but it won't be as hard as it has been.
 
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Robert Stewart
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We played yesterday and, in a very narrow Human victory (1/1/2/1; Armory damaged; no Centurions ever; 6 damaged Vipers), toward the end, the Treachery deck was being shuffled every other turn as the ~3 cards left in it kept cycling through...
 
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Aurélien Defossez
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Hi, this is just a quick note to say we stopped playing with this variant.

Some of us liked it because it added more chaos to the game (Where does this treachery come from?), but others less, because some skill checks were too hard to read, because anybody could have put a treachery.

Anyway, we had our fun with it, but now we're back to the "serious" games."
 
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