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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Rules

Subject: Agenda stolen- do i have to destroy my ice? rss

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Daniele Castriotta
Germany
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Hey there.

I just played my first game and it´s quite awesome.

I played as the Con. And i have a question
When the runner stole my agenda or destroys an ambush, do i have to destroy my ICE that was related to that system?
It kind of felt odd that i always could reuse the system.

Thank you for your help.
 
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Duncan Idaho
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Deny wrote:
Hey there.

I just played my first game and it´s quite awesome.

I played as the Con. And i have a question
When the runner stole my agenda or destroys an ambush, do i have to destroy my ICE that was related to that system?
It kind of felt odd that i always could reuse the system.

Thank you for your help.


You do not. It stays open to protect the server, to which you can install new things.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Idaho11 wrote:
Deny wrote:
Hey there.

I just played my first game and it´s quite awesome.

I played as the Con. And i have a question
When the runner stole my agenda or destroys an ambush, do i have to destroy my ICE that was related to that system?
It kind of felt odd that i always could reuse the system.

Thank you for your help.


You do not. It stays open to protect the server, to which you can install new things.


AAMOF, You cannot, even if for some reason you wanted to, like if the Runner has a Bank Job. You can only Trash ICE when installing new ICE in that Server or if a card effect tells you to.
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Chris Wood
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Deny wrote:


It kind of felt odd that i always could reuse the system.


Think of it this way. The Agenda is not a system. It's being processed or built on a server inside of a remote data center. That data center has ice to protect from intrusion. Once the agenda has been developed or stolen, you can still re-use that data center to begin new development. The system is the framework around the agenda, not the agenda itself
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Vincent Perry
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What made you think that the ice should be destroyed?
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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I could understand why someone not exactly tech-savvy could understand it like so. Agenda being the main core and system going down once it's not there. Think of Tron and MCP and so on :)

But yeah, Taloncarde gave a nice explanation above. The server remains, even if it contents is empty for the time being.
 
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Double Plus Undead
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If something happens that causes all of the cards in or protecting a server to be trashed (ice, agenda, asset, upgrades), then it is really and truly gone. This is only true for remotes, though. Central servers are always there, even if they are empty and there is no ice protecting them. (For example, you can still run on archives to get Datasucker counters even if there are no cards in it and no ice protecting it.)
 
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General Norris
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Deny wrote:
When the runner stole my agenda or destroys an ambush, do i have to destroy my ICE that was related to that system?
It kind of felt odd that i always could reuse the system.

Well, you don't trash your computer when you print a document, do you?
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Evan
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rattkin wrote:
I could understand why someone not exactly tech-savvy could understand it like so. Agenda being the main core and system going down once it's not there. Think of Tron and MCP and so on

But yeah, Taloncarde gave a nice explanation above. The server remains, even if it contents is empty for the time being.


I don't know that there's necessarily anything un-tech-savvy about it... Taloncarde does a good job of explaining how it "actually" happens, but one could imagine an equally plausible fictional setting in which electronic security is more specialized and ad hoc, and in which you can't just go "well, now that the Ruhr Valley advertising campaign has been compromised, I think I'll repurpose those systems to run my upstalk psychic-clone-breeding project."
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Gregory Pettigrew
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rattkin wrote:
I could understand why someone not exactly tech-savvy could understand it like so. Agenda being the main core and system going down once it's not there. Think of Tron and MCP and so on

But yeah, Taloncarde gave a nice explanation above. The server remains, even if it contents is empty for the time being.


So I suspect the man in the santa hat was asking because there are a lot of misconceptions we see regularly and it would be nice if we could figure out where in the rulebook those misconceptions come from/can be eliminated.
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Caught in a mechanism
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etherial wrote:
So I suspect the man in the santa hat was asking because there are a lot of misconceptions we see regularly and it would be nice if we could figure out where in the rulebook those misconceptions come from/can be eliminated.

I think the reason why many beginners think ice is discarded, or at least unrezzed, after the runner successfully encounters it is the destructive connotation of the verb "to break". For someone unfamiliar with cyberpunk jargon, it is quite natural to infer some kind of damage when you first read that the runner breaks the subroutines in the ice.
 
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Chris Wood
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etherial wrote:
rattkin wrote:
I could understand why someone not exactly tech-savvy could understand it like so. Agenda being the main core and system going down once it's not there. Think of Tron and MCP and so on

But yeah, Taloncarde gave a nice explanation above. The server remains, even if it contents is empty for the time being.


So I suspect the man in the santa hat was asking because there are a lot of misconceptions we see regularly and it would be nice if we could figure out where in the rulebook those misconceptions come from/can be eliminated.


as he said in his OP, "It kind of felt odd that i always could reuse the system."

So it is not a rules issue (for him at least) so much as theme
 
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Beyer
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etherial wrote:
rattkin wrote:
I could understand why someone not exactly tech-savvy could understand it like so. Agenda being the main core and system going down once it's not there. Think of Tron and MCP and so on

But yeah, Taloncarde gave a nice explanation above. The server remains, even if it contents is empty for the time being.


So I suspect the man in the santa hat was asking because there are a lot of misconceptions we see regularly and it would be nice if we could figure out where in the rulebook those misconceptions come from/can be eliminated.

Exactly, I came here to ask that exact question.
Because getting to the root of a problem (no pun intended) will often set off a chain reaction of understanding. If we can pinpont what the OP misinterpreted from the rules, we can probably elucidate on a lot of other topics at the same time.

And the answer to the OP's question is: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/rules#rop23

Quote:

Ice

The Corporation installs ice to protect his servers. Installed ice is always dedicated to a particular server and placed in front of that server. Ice can protect an empty server. Ice is active if rezzed and inactive if unrezzed.

Because rules questions should always be answered with rules references. That is where an answer's credibility comes from.
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Daniele Castriotta
Germany
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Oh Thank you for the good and even for the sarcastic advice.
In my first game i just had so many Systems open that the Runner didn´t attacked.

In the second game it made more sens because he had just a few remote server (I was unable to access btw -.-) at least i had the feeling i couldn´t. Janus 1.0 is very annoying.

Oh another rule question.
Can i use three clicks to avoid three subroutines on Janus 1.0

(Sorry if the name of the card is wrong. I don´t have the game right here ^^)



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Andrew Keddie
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Yes, you can. As long as you run first click and don't mind taking one brain damage, Janus 1.0 won't keep you out of a server
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Daniele Castriotta
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And do i have to have an Ice Breaker who can interact with janus?
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Deny wrote:
And do i have to have an Ice Breaker who can interact with janus?


Nope. You can just take it on the chin.
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Andrew Keddie
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Deny wrote:
And do i have to have an Ice Breaker who can interact with janus?


You never need to interact with ICE to pass it, unless it sayd 'end the run'. You only need Icebreakers to break Subroutines to stop them resolving.

(Most) Bioroids happen to have an additional weakness whereby you can spend clicks to break them. This is built directly into the Bioroid; as such no Icebreaker is required.
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Evgeny Reznikov
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Deny wrote:
And do i have to have an Ice Breaker who can interact with janus?

No. Since Janus (and all Bioroid ICE) says "The runner may spend to break any subroutine", your icebreaker isn't interacting with the Janus, thus not needing any strength. You can do it without having any icebreakers installed, in fact.
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Yann
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Did my first game yesterday, and reread all the rules plus the 2 FAQs and could not find a satisfactory answer.

I have read the whole thread and I am still confused, so if you don t mind I would like to give a concrete example.

Corporation is using an asset or agenda to build a remote server and protects it with ice, and upgrades.

Runner successfully access this remote server and steal the agenda or trash the asset, therefore leaving a blank space where the remote server was.

What happens to the ICE and the upgrades (not trashed) that used to be installed on that remote server?

Can the corporation take benefit of the entire infrastructure and put another remote server at the same place with a new agenda, just behind the already installed ICE and to take benefit of all the previous upgrades?

If it would be so, the corporation can end-up building one unique very powerful infrastructure and make the runner goes bankrupt with each run.

Thank you very much for clarification.

 
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Brodie
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youtch wrote:
Can the corporation take benefit of the entire infrastructure and put another remote server at the same place with a new agenda, just behind the already installed ICE and to take benefit of all the previous upgrades?


In a word, yes. All the ice remains protecting that remote server. The remote server is simply empty (for the time being). As a matter of fact, the Corporation can install ice protecting a new remote server that is empty, perhaps in preparation for installing something there in a later turn.

Quote:
If it would be so, the corporation can end-up building one unique very powerful infrastructure and make the runner goes bankrupt with each run.


Yes -- this strategy is at the heart of the "glacier" playstyle for Corps.
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Yann
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Thank you very much for your kind response, which help resolving a misinterpretation from my side.
 
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