jeremy cobert
United States
cedar rapids
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was just reading through an ACLU brief here

https://www.aclu.org/national-security/us-releases-targeted-...

Al-Awlaki's Fourth Amendment right to due process were brought up, but in end ,The Obama administration's Justice Department argues here that
Quote:
capturing Al-Awlaki was infeasible, yet he presented a threat to the United States as "continued" and "imminent," therefore lethal force was justified.


The current administration seem to be comfortable with using an incredible amount of drone strikes killing their target and any civilians close by.

It therefore should eventually lead to another threat where a drone strike will be used here in the USA on a target located inside our borders.

Today if we had a situation like Waco or Ruby Ridge, I wonder if we would consider use a drone to kill those people instead of tanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Unlikely. On US soil there are far more options between 'do nothing' and 'drone strike.'
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shadrach wrote:
Unlikely. On US soil there are far more options between 'do nothing' and 'drone strike.'
Such as the aforementioned tanks, So Jeza you answered your own question.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Russell
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nope, you never see the drone that hits you.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Born To Lose, Live To Win
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jeremycobert wrote:

Today if we had a situation like Waco or Ruby Ridge, I wonder if we would consider use a drone to kill those people instead of tanks.


At least in Waco's case, it was a downward spiral of escalating violence. The ATF didn't just decide one day that David Koresh needed to be killed because he was a clear and present danger and collateral damage was acceptable. I don't think there was ever a decision point where a drone strike would have been a reasonable option and would never had even been on the table.

In an EvilGovernment dimension, I could see callous, political agents sending a drone to kill Ted Kazcinski without anyone even knowing what happened. Self-isolated, no collatoral damage, was making his own bombs anyway so easily explained away as an accident. But I agree with Shadrach, domestically there are so many other options that the Drone option rarely has any compelling benefits other than surveillance, where they do have superior advantages.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Uses of drones on US soil for everything from border patrol to routine police surveillance are already openly discussed. Drones have strike capability. Is it reasonable to imagine it won't be used?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jeremy cobert
United States
cedar rapids
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheChin! wrote:
At least in Waco's case, it was a downward spiral of escalating violence. The ATF didn't just decide one day that David Koresh needed to be killed because he was a clear and present danger and collateral damage was acceptable.


I believe the ATF did want to try out their new armaments thinking the Branch Davidians would just lay down. There is pre raid video of the ATF and they were excited going in.

TheChin! wrote:
I don't think there was ever a decision point where a drone strike would have been a reasonable option and would never had even been on the table.


I bet most American after WW1 would have thought there would never be a tank used to kill Americans on American soil, yet it happened in Waco, and most police forces now have some type of tank or heavy assault vehicle. It took less then 100 years for a tank to be invented and used on citizens.

the legal president is now set up by the Obama administration that you can use a drone strike on a US citizen with due process. I really think there will be a strike on US soil. The drones will be much better and more accurate by then.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon M
United Kingdom
Hitchin
Herts
flag msg tools
Avatar
Would you expect to see an air attack in the USA from the US Airforce or Navy? A drone is no different to this - it just lets you do it in a more hostile air space. So can you really envisage the following in the USA:
US Army cannot operate there
A manned US aircraft cannot operate due to hostile air defense
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
admin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jon_1066 wrote:
Would you expect to see an air attack in the USA from the US Airforce or Navy? A drone is no different to this - it just lets you do it in a more hostile air space. So can you really envisage the following in the USA:
US Army cannot operate there
A manned US aircraft cannot operate due to hostile air defense

You just don't get it. it's DRONZ!!!!!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess the answer to the thread title all depends on what the soil did to anyone.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Fisher
United States
Downingtown
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Would that be a bad thing if used effectively? I'm sure they could also be non-lethal drones.

It seems better than say... when the Philadelphia State police bombed MOVE?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Born To Lose, Live To Win
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jeremycobert wrote:
The drones will be much better and more accurate by then.


If this was the case, then would there be a difference between that and a SWAT sniper? No matter what, a few hundred rounds of 5.56 or 30-06 ammunition (or tear gas, which is the real weapon that was used on the Waco "tank") is much cheaper than a Hellfire missile or it's more advanced descendant.

Not to mention, in order to kill someone with a standoff missile, you need a sizable explosion as the payload. Yes, you can make a missile more accurate, but if it still kills everything in a 100 foot radius, there will be collateral damage. If you are proposing that drones will reach the point that snipers will operated them from central locations and the drone will be armed with a Barrett sniper rifle, with the drone being able to create a stable firing platform to eliminate people, then how is it different than snipers on a rooftop?

I guess the real issue here isn't the 'drone'. That's just the execution method, and there are cheaper, less risky and easier ways to execute people domestically. The real problem is executions without trials and that is where I am totally on board with curtailing the Obama administration's excesses.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff
United States
Linden
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Social Justice Wargamer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As in all matters, I expect whether you see a drone strike on US soil depends entirely on whether you want to see a drone strike on US soil.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Born To Lose, Live To Win
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ExcitingJeff wrote:
As in all matters, I expect whether you see a drone strike on US soil depends entirely on whether you want to see a drone strike on US soil.


If you are trying to say that wasn't a missile that hit the Pentagon on 9-11 and it was a plane like the Guvmint tried to tell us, well you are just another Guvmint-licker.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ironically the fear of drone attacks on US soil has caused more violence (if not death) then any actual strikes.

I thank Jaza for continuing the effort to get ill informed rednecks to kill each other over paranoid fantasies.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
いい竹やぶだ!

South Euclid
Ohio
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
If you see a US drone strike on US soil, it's likely to happen within the last two seconds of your lifetime.

As George Carlin once said, "If you divide your shoe size by the caliber of the bullet being fired at you, you get the number of centimeters you can run before being hit."
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jeremy cobert
United States
cedar rapids
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LeeDambis wrote:
It will happen, and a lot of people will make a big deal out of it as if it's somehow different than having a marksman take down the target with a rifle. Dead is dead.


No, not hardly the same. Go kill a wounded deer with a knife, its much more personal then using a rifle. Using a drone from a computer terminal on the other side of the country makes killing a video game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jeremycobert wrote:
LeeDambis wrote:
It will happen, and a lot of people will make a big deal out of it as if it's somehow different than having a marksman take down the target with a rifle. Dead is dead.


No, not hardly the same. Go kill a wounded deer with a knife, its much more personal then using a rifle. Using a drone from a computer terminal on the other side of the country makes killing a video game.
So...it's better to have people who want to kill kill?, better for your police to hire psychos?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
"L'état, c'est moi."
Canada
Vancouver
BC
flag msg tools
admin
designer
Roger's Reviews: check out my reviews page, right here on BGG!
badge
Caution: May contain wargame like substance
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Frankly I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Belgium
flag msg tools
Meaningless means there's a strong limit to how much I can mess up!
badge
This overtext is not in use.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jeremycobert wrote:
LeeDambis wrote:
It will happen, and a lot of people will make a big deal out of it as if it's somehow different than having a marksman take down the target with a rifle. Dead is dead.


No, not hardly the same. Go kill a wounded deer with a knife, its much more personal then using a rifle. Using a drone from a computer terminal on the other side of the country makes killing a video game.


Perhaps. But ordering a sniper to shoot someone and ordering a drone to take out the same target seem about as personal as each other.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Fisher
United States
Downingtown
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Koldfoot wrote:
You are all assuming it would be the US using the drones...


That was the specific question in the OP.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lfisher wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
You are all assuming it would be the US using the drones...


That was the specific question in the OP.


Well yeah, but... but... but you're assuming what the question tells you to assume. Why are you such a sheeple?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Koldfoot wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
lfisher wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
You are all assuming it would be the US using the drones...


That was the specific question in the OP.


Well yeah, but... but... but you're assuming what the question tells you to assume. Why are you such a sheeple?


You are all assuming it will not be a drone strike by the US on US soil against an invading Chinese army.


WalMart is already here. What further invasion do they need?

Though if we were to see some drone strikes against WalMarts, I would be all for it.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kelsey Rinella
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
I am proud to have opposed those who describe all who oppose them as "Tender Flowers" and "Special Snowflakes".
badge
Check out Stately Play for news and reviews of games worth thinking about.
Avatar
mbmb
There's been a pretty serious outpouring of relaxed, sensible commentary in this thread. We may need to change our ways if we want RSP to keep its reputation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Yaure
United States
Plymouth Meeting
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
lfisher wrote:
Would that be a bad thing if used effectively? I'm sure they could also be non-lethal drones.

It seems better than say... when the Philadelphia State police bombed MOVE?


That was the CITY of Philadelphia, not the COMMONWEALTH (STATE) of Pennsylvania.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.