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Android: Netrunner» Forums » General

Subject: untap.in : Play netrunner in a browser! rss

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Jared Harkness
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Haven't seen this discussed here yet.
So www.untap.in is a browser-based card game arena type deal, and they have netrunner available! This is exciting for me, because as a Mac user, I cannot participate in all the Octgn nonsense.

I've only played one game on it so far, there aren't many players around, and I think the Netrunner portion is pretty new. It is definitely feels like it was designed with something more like Magic in mind. That being said, the core of the design seems pretty legit and easy to figure out. It is definitely missing some tweaks that could specifically help Netrunner:

There didn't seem to be any way that I could see to shuffle your hand (at least not efficiently).

There didn't seem to be any way I could see to play the Psi game.

There's a way to look at the top card of an opponent's deck, but I don't think there's a way to look past that one, so cards like Keyhole and Indexing might be difficult.

There's probably a lot that COULD be done to make the game flow smoother, but definitely not necessary at this point. I played one game, we just announced what we were doing, and manipulated the board accordingly, which was actually kinda cool cause it felt more like a real game of netrunner, and less like a video game.

So there you have it!
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Clyde W
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WHAAAA

Can you deckbuild on this site too? All current cards are available?
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Scott Rubin
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I thought I would never see a user interface worse than OCTGN. I was wrong.
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Jared Harkness
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see I haven't played on octgn, so I can't compare it.
But it wasn't that bad too me.
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Mark Czerwinski
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Gonna have to keep my eye on this one.

Subscribed!
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Ian Hedberg
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I like playing Netrunner whenever I want, and I like trying out cards I don't own, but this is a huge chore.

Just playing an Anonymous Tip takes a while. I have to click the card in hand, find the play icon, click that, drag it to center. Then I click my deck and click draw and repeat 2 times. Then I click the tip and click discard.

Installing and advancing an agenda means clicking the card in hand, carefully clicking "play facedown" instead of "play", dragging it to the server, left clicking my generic counter circle, right clicking anywhere else to close the flash menu that opens when I left click (and hoping I don't accidentally click something on the flash menu and break or wipe the game), clicking on the C to get a counter card, dragging the counter card to the agenda. Clicking on a circle on the counter card. And then clicking off the text line I accidentally clicked on the counter card.

So. Much. Work.

I think I'll stick to physical play.
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Grubber Lang
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you can play OCTGN on mac. Get virtual box, install windows xp et voila. If you have problems, play it via ethernet cable rather than a router.
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J. Chris Miller
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Apreche wrote:
I thought I would never see a user interface worse than OCTGN. I was wrong.


I don't think OCTGN is that bad once you get used to it. I don't like the tiny cards however, and feel that there is a lot of wasted space. I've stated this before.
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Paul Dempster
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Apreche wrote:
I thought I would never see a user interface worse than OCTGN. I was wrong.

Wow, obviously people agree with you but I don't recognise what you are saying in the slightest. Pretty much every action is a double click, and you hover over any card to see it magnified. Complex combos and card interactions are possible, automatic clicks and credit tallying and it allows me to play Netrunner seven days a week instead of just one. All told OCTGN is just fantastic!

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Jason Kessler
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Totally in agreement with you. For those of us without a local active meta, who have other outside interests competing for time (kids, work, etc) OCTGN allows for participation in and playing of one of the greatest games I've ever been exposed to. No question, the UI is difficult to grasp on the first go-around and an in person game is preferable, but many of us wouldn't be playing Netrunner if it weren't for the excellent work of the OCTGN team and db0.

This thread reminds me that some time ago someone had introduced a web-based Netrunner specific interface they were working on. Anyone have any further information on this? My ultimate dream is Netrunner (with full auto rules enforcement) on my iOS device with integrated voice chat. A man can dream can't he. FFG make it so, pretty please.
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buzznaut wrote:
My ultimate dream is Netrunner (with full auto rules enforcement) on my iOS device with integrated voice chat.

...and designed by Playdeck Games. (Not affiliated, just a fan.)

BTW, I am just beginning to play at OCTGN and although the interface is challenging I am also grateful that it even exists. Until recently I've been playing a couple of matches A MONTH.
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Christopher MacLeod
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buzznaut wrote:
This thread reminds me that some time ago someone had introduced a web-based Netrunner specific interface they were working on. Anyone have any further information on this? My ultimate dream is Netrunner (with full auto rules enforcement) on my iOS device with integrated voice chat. A man can dream can't he. FFG make it so, pretty please.


Which one? The Internet is littered with abandoned web-based Netrunner interfaces, including mine:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/906245/poll-interest-online-...

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1112548/pre-announcement-nr-...

https://github.com/prozz/anr-server

There's a couple more on Reddit too that are also dead.

Mtgred has one that is barely started but might be actively worked on:

http://netrunner-manabase.rhcloud.com/

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Jason Kessler
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thanks for posting those prior attempts. never had seen the mtgred site. looks pretty cool so far. hope he continues to work on it and maybe gets "hired" by FFG.
 
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Konstantinos Thoukydidis
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Kiv6 wrote:
buzznaut wrote:
This thread reminds me that some time ago someone had introduced a web-based Netrunner specific interface they were working on. Anyone have any further information on this? My ultimate dream is Netrunner (with full auto rules enforcement) on my iOS device with integrated voice chat. A man can dream can't he. FFG make it so, pretty please.


Which one? The Internet is littered with abandoned web-based Netrunner interfaces, including mine:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/906245/poll-interest-online-...

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1112548/pre-announcement-nr-...

https://github.com/prozz/anr-server

There's a couple more on Reddit too that are also dead.

Mtgred has one that is barely started but might be actively worked on:

http://netrunner-manabase.rhcloud.com/



I wonder why is everyone giving up. Why did you stop?
 
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Mark Roach
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As author of one of those, the reason I haven't been fired up about completing it lately is really that I discovered that I don't much want to play Netrunner on the computer

I suppose that if I had hopes of getting a halfway-decent AI for just simple 5 minute testing of decks, I would find it more useful, but writing even halfway-decent AIs (that can run in finite time) is harder than you might think.
 
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Patrik Hartwig
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I noticed this thread, thought i would pop in. I am the developer on UnTap, ANR is still flagged as testing and has been for some time. I don't play ANR and it was added as a request, but since then no body has been reporting issues, so i haven't been working on the client in any regards to UnTap and ANR. If anyone would like to weigh in and offer support to the UnTap client and ANR support feel free to contact me from the contact link on the UnTap.in page.

UnTap is not an abandoned project, and yes works across multiple platforms including tablets, and has voice chat in the client.
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Konstantinos Thoukydidis
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I contacted you in the past from your contact details, I got no reply :-/
 
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T.J. Martin
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mrroach wrote:
As author of one of those, the reason I haven't been fired up about completing it lately is really that I discovered that I don't much want to play Netrunner on the computer

I suppose that if I had hopes of getting a halfway-decent AI for just simple 5 minute testing of decks, I would find it more useful, but writing even halfway-decent AIs (that can run in finite time) is harder than you might think.


When I looked at your thread linked above, it appeared that you had stopped because FFG got on you in a hurry. A friend and I have a pretty good implementation with full rules enforcement and about 40% of the cards implemented, but we don't really know what to do with it. It seems like even free products get the legal hammer (excepting OCTGN).
 
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Christopher MacLeod
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SaintVigeous wrote:
When I looked at your thread linked above, it appeared that you had stopped because FFG got on you in a hurry. A friend and I have a pretty good implementation with full rules enforcement and about 40% of the cards implemented, but we don't really know what to do with it. It seems like even free products get the legal hammer (excepting OCTGN).


Mark's code itself didn't get a takedown, but rather a preview video on Youtube that was interpreted by lawyers as advertising a Netrunner game.

I'm not a lawyer but your free product should be at least as safe as OCTGN if you follow the same rules:

- Don't advertise as a Netrunner game or use any of their trademarks. Your game engine just happens to implement the same (non-copyrightable) rules as A:NR.
- Avoid officially distributing card images or proprietary fonts and icons. Even in screenshots of the game, even test images in source control.
- If your engine accepts external image packs (that people scanned from their legally purchased game, for example) then that should be fine.

It sounds like you guys are farther along than anyone else that started, that's great! What kind of tech stack are you using? Any chance I could have a look and/or help out?
 
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T.J. Martin
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Kiv6 wrote:
SaintVigeous wrote:
When I looked at your thread linked above, it appeared that you had stopped because FFG got on you in a hurry. A friend and I have a pretty good implementation with full rules enforcement and about 40% of the cards implemented, but we don't really know what to do with it. It seems like even free products get the legal hammer (excepting OCTGN).


Mark's code itself didn't get a takedown, but rather a preview video on Youtube that was interpreted by lawyers as advertising a Netrunner game.

I'm not a lawyer but your free product should be at least as safe as OCTGN if you follow the same rules:

- Don't advertise as a Netrunner game or use any of their trademarks. Your game engine just happens to implement the same (non-copyrightable) rules as A:NR.
- Avoid officially distributing card images or proprietary fonts and icons. Even in screenshots of the game, even test images in source control.
- If your engine accepts external image packs (that people scanned from their legally purchased game, for example) then that should be fine.

It sounds like you guys are farther along than anyone else that started, that's great! What kind of tech stack are you using? Any chance I could have a look and/or help out?


Ours is not a web client (though it pretty easily could be). We are using Unity with C#. The nice thing is that the rules execution engine, the card implementations and the UI are all completely separate so they can be mixed and matched with whatever piece of technology. The API for interaction with the game even allows AI to drive it. We have a very very very simple AI just so you don't have to play both sides while testing.

The two biggest hurdles we are seeing right now are
1) Modeling the timing rules in a way that isn't completely infuriating. For example:
-I click for a credit.
-I activate no prevention effects that would stop me from gaining a credit or losing the click I spent.
-My opponent also activates no prevention abilities.
-I activate no paid abilities,scoring or rezzing so I pass priority.
-My opponent also activates no paid abilities and thus passes priority back.
-Now I can click for another credit. Yay!

2) Djinn - No seriously. Everything else in the core set is done. This one sucks. Everything works except that you can't play a new virus to host on it if you are already at your intrinsic memory limit.
 
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Captain Frisk
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SaintVigeous wrote:

The two biggest hurdles we are seeing right now are
1) Modeling the timing rules in a way that isn't completely infuriating. For example:
-I click for a credit.
-I activate no prevention effects that would stop me from gaining a credit or losing the click I spent.
-My opponent also activates no prevention abilities.
-I activate no paid abilities,scoring or rezzing so I pass priority.
-My opponent also activates no paid abilities and thus passes priority back.
-Now I can click for another credit. Yay!


You could handle this the way isotropic did for dominion - and just auto skip windows where neither player has something they could activate. This isn't ideal for a number of reasons, but its better than doing nothing.

The other thing you could do is have each player have a "slow play / wait" button - that they could hit if they want to jump down into that level of back and forth play - something that in 99% of situations won't be an issue.

Finally, you could execute action everything as a stack so that players can undo actions if necessary... one of the nice things about OCTGN is the ability to manually rewind if you need to for whatever reason.
 
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T.J. Martin
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Captain_Frisk wrote:

You could handle this the way isotropic did for dominion - and just auto skip windows where neither player has something they could activate. This isn't ideal for a number of reasons, but its better than doing nothing.

The other thing you could do is have each player have a "slow play / wait" button - that they could hit if they want to jump down into that level of back and forth play - something that in 99% of situations won't be an issue.

Finally, you could execute action everything as a stack so that players can undo actions if necessary... one of the nice things about OCTGN is the ability to manually rewind if you need to for whatever reason.


The first is kind of the plan. We have been debating it a lot. With certain assumptions, you can really speed things along, but much of it comes at the cost of "skill tests". Only prompting for a prevention effect if there is a pending effect with a matching prevention effect on the board eliminates 99% of the prompts, but then there is no way for the corp to try and sneak in a tag trash if you have a Fall Guy in play. It's like someone standing over your shoulder saying "Wait. Remember you can save that with fall guy."

We do currently have a toggle for auto-passing priority but it's really easy to screw yourself that way. You need to turn it off before the of their turn if you want to rez Adonis and you need to turn it off before taking your action if you want to score an agenda (since technically you cannot score an agenda just straight up during your action). The only places it stops automatically is run step 2.3 for the Corp and run step 3.1 for the Runner.
 
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T.J. Martin
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Also, sorry for tangenting in your thread Jared!
 
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Christopher MacLeod
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I'd love to move the discussion on SaintVigeous's client to another thread, since it's really interesting but not on-topic.

 
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David O
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Same here. The rules implementation is the one thing keeping me from playing OCTGN on a regular basis, so if that is added to SaintVigeous's client, I'd be very interested to try it.
 
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