Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: Z-Pack Effectiveness (aka the Rebel Swarm) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Random Fleming
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As Wave 4 is hitting store shelves, I wanted to ask a question concerning the Z-95 Headhunter.

It's no surprise that one of the favorite Imperial attack formations is the TIE Swarm; just the odds of having several fighters fire at a single target in one round increases the changes of destroying the target. And since Academy pilots have such a low point value....

From your earliest experiences, do you think a Z-Pack (or Z-Swarm, or Z-95 Swarm) will have the same effectiveness, particularly as these fighters also have such a low point cost?

Thoughts?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adrian Sperling
Canada
Coquitlam
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No, for two reasons:

- the Z-95's dial is worse
- 2 agility vs. 3

The first reason is the primary one - I think a pack of Zs will have a much harder time getting all their arcs lined up on one target vs. a pack of TIEs. The second reason relates to survivability - I'm not certain that the additional shield offsets the lost agility, given how many ships can roll 3, 4 or even 5 red dice now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Davyd A
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
My on-paper-only guess is that 6 Zeds with missiles (5 with Assault + 1 Proton Rocket or Ion Pulse, swap for Homings as suits you) will be better than 8 naked Zeds. That's 6 shots that have a decent chance of actually hitting something, much better than the 8 shots with bad odds they get with just the lasers.

Their dial's not bad, lining up shots shouldn't be too hard; but I think the 2 die Agility will hurt them more than the extra health helps.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Sweat
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
Out of curiosity, has anyone run an 8 v 8 game yet?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Lee
United States
California
flag msg tools
mb
The Z-95 are moving missile platforms and should be use as such. They function as anti-swarm. Put assault missiles with munition failsafe on them and watch Ties stop flying together thus loosing the ability to concentrate fire on individual ships. This in turn allow the Z to concentrate fire and pick-off the Ties one by one.

Naked Z swarms are no match against Ties swarms for the reasons the others have mentioned.

Any ship squads used in ways that are not designed for are in deep trouble.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric B.
United States
East Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

The most crucial difference, though, is that Z-95s do not have Howlrunner. She's a very big part of general TIE Swarm effectiveness.

I know in the UK tourney scene 8 Academies has won some big events, but here in the US successful TIE Swarms all seem to run Howlrunner and six TIE fighters. Without a comparable offense-booster, I'm not sure if Z-95 swarms will be as viable.


Which is totally fine, as I see the Z-95 as a great filler ship for Rebels letting them round out a large variety of lists with an extra ship.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Eding
United States
Toledo
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Michael Sweat wrote:
Out of curiosity, has anyone run an 8 v 8 game yet?

soon. I ordered 8 Zs.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Cook
United States
Denton
Texas
flag msg tools
*beep*
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think a Z swarm would only do well against a TIE swarm, and that's only because they get to shoot first and are more durable for the same cost.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Henderson
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Donkler wrote:
I think a Z swarm would only do well against a TIE swarm, and that's only because they get to shoot first and are more durable for the same cost.


This could be a critical point. I haven't done the math, but getting to shoot first with all your ships before TIE Academy Pilots could tip the odds in favor of the Z-95 swarm.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Chav
United States
Taylorsville
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
But any smart player would upgrade 4 of his fighters to ps3
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Cook
United States
Denton
Texas
flag msg tools
*beep*
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Danath wrote:
But any smart player would upgrade 4 of his fighters to ps3


If you want to split hairs you can upgrade 4 of the Z's in the same way to PS4
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Chav
United States
Taylorsville
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
True but now the ties might be able to remove a z95 before it shoots
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Woodworth
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Someone on the FFG boards ran the numbers and Z's are actually slightly better then Ties in terms of Jousting Efficiency.

The shoot first, have shields which makes them resistant to crits, and the dial isn't that bad.

Howlrunner is a great pilot, but is not the only reason why swarms work well, if she was the only reason why, then Swarms would rarely win a match, because once she's gone, then the whole list would fall apart unless they did a massive amount of damage first.

The 6 Z w/Assault Missiles could very well go a long way to limiting the effectiveness of a Swarm.

Cracken w/SL, Blunt and 3 Tala w/Assault Missiles can completely wreck a swam with it's alpha if it's tightly packed. If it spreads out enough to avoid the splash damage then Howl becomes a non-factor. Plus this list the lowest PS is 4.

8 naked Z's on the other hand, I don't think they'll do nearly as well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Woodworth
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Danath wrote:
True but now the ties might be able to remove a z95 before it shoots


If you upgrade the ties to PS3, Tala still moves last and shoots first, which is a huge advantage in terms of getting TL's and firing an alpha.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Dunford
Canada
Kemptville
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Head-to-head, an Academy/Obsidian 8-TIE swarm has a big advantage over a Bandit/Tala 8-Z95 swarm. Back in wave 1, about the only thing 7-8 TIEs didn't want to see across from them was another 7-8 TIEs. 2 attack vs 3 agility rarely earned a complete victory unless the dice rolls were one-sided. Here, the Z-95s suffer from 2 attack vs 3 agility, but the TIEs have it much easier with 2 attack vs 2 agility.

As for 6-ship squads, Z-95s with various named pilots and/or missiles will be very interesting and could be built to do well against TIEs or other squads in the meta. Variety is only a good thing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Random Fleming
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jpltanis wrote:

Any ship squads used in ways that are not designed for are in deep trouble.

That's the problem. Different players play ships in different ways.

Hence: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4699
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.