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Subject: So many phantom lists, why no defender lists? rss

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Chris Brown
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I've seen an awful lot of people posting lists centered around the phantom. Why no defender love? I'm typically a rebel player so I'm not great at putting together imperial lists. I tried last night and couldn't come up with any list with the defender that I was really excited to try out. Maybe we just don't know what it's capable of yet...

Thoughts?
Do you have a defender list you're excited to try?
 
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Jeff Dunford
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I think you answered your own question.

It's tough to justify a Defender when it's at the same price point as a Firespray - or 3 TIE Fighters or 2 TIE Interceptors. It has some neat options for customization but it's going to cost even more. And since Imperials have a tougher time stacking actions, it's difficult to make use of the named Defenders' special abilities (e.g. Brath pretty much needs either Predator or PtL to give him a chance to score a hit without spending his TL; Vessery needs other ships to have TL's, which limits his friendlies to Bombers, Advanced, Firesprays, Shuttles and other Defenders - e.g. Other expensive ships (once upgraded). Since TL is best with high PS pilots (and generally isn't available on TIE Fighters and Interceptors, unless you want to put Targeting Computers on them), then you're looking at a 2 or 3 ship squad.

That said, we've found they're pretty solid in Team Epic because they're hard to hit and pack a punch, and you're more likely to find a use for their abilities (e.g. more likely to have Target Locks on lots of ships, Jendon/ST-321 in play, lots of Bombers and other high-priority targets, etc).
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Allen T
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killerardvark wrote:
I've seen an awful lot of people posting lists centered around the phantom. Why no defender love? I'm typically a rebel player so I'm not great at putting together imperial lists. I tried last night and couldn't come up with any list with the defender that I was really excited to try out. Maybe we just don't know what it's capable of yet...

Thoughts?
Do you have a defender list you're excited to try?


Because the Defender looks only slightly better than the Advance. I am totally an Imperial player and I cannot find any place for the Defender in a squad yet. I'd rather use 3 more points and take a Firespray, which looks to me to be a significantly better ship. Or 8 more points and take two Alpha, doubling my attack and actually be able to turn my ships.

Here is a squad, but I think it would probably be pretty bad:
Vessery+HLC
3x BSP+PtL+TC


With the poor (terrible, IMO) dial and huge point cost for moderate surviveability, it would take a natural 4 attack dice before I would consider using it, especially over a Phantom.
 
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Peter O
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The obvious list to me is:
3x: Delta Squadron + Ion Cannon

Ionize several targets, white K turn in behind them, finish them off.

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Joseph Woodworth
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I am looking forward to trying

2x delta
Echo + recon spec + ACD + FCS + Veteran instincts...

The 2 deltas bully, while Echo flanks - ignore the defenders and chase Echo about? or let Echo flank you to death.

Also

OMG + Darth Vader + Tactician
Onyx + Ion Cannon
Obsidian X3

Lots of stuff moving on 3 with a stress doom shuttle, probably not brilliant, but a fun mini swarm + shuttle.

And

Col. Vessery + Squad Leader + Proton Rockets + Ion cannon.
Scimitar + Flechette torps + munitions failsafe X3

Stress everywhere - with Scimitars that may be missing with the flechette torps, Vessery hitting stressed stuff with an ion cannon - and here Squad leader does the wacky tech of allowing Vessery to let a scimitar Target lock, so that he can get a free target lock....
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Angelus Seniores
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I do think the defender has potential and will certainly try them out.
either 2 named defenders with upgrades or 3 basics with a few upgrades.
their 3 hull and 3 shields is quite some hitpoints, defended by 3 agility for starts.

I suspect the white K-turn to have a nice effect on play and by itself requires less normal turns, so the red turn maneuvers should be less of an issue than expected at first sight;
you can K-turn even when stressed
you can K-turn each round, not just once every 2 rounds.

Rexler's ability to possibly turn every hull damage into a critical with use of focus will wreak havoc when coupled with a HLC
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Dave Grohl
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So, I've been playing Brath pretty solidly for the last three weeks or so. I would say that predator is made for him and every other EPT pales on him compared to getting those re-rolls. Also, his ability is MONEY. I turned 3 crits on Chewie the other night and it was glorious. Now, as far as the dial goes, I don't think it's as bad as the chicken littles are making it out to be. True turning on a 1 or 2 is problematic, but why would you do that when you can k-turn and barrel roll? You can keep them in arc and have superior positioning for the next round no matter where they move, and on an 8, only Han and Wedge (or a jumped up 7) move after. Now, I feel like HLC is a waste on Defenders; any cannon is really. And ordnance is equally moot. Use the Defender as intended, as a superiority fighter. It is better naked than (arguably, but not by much) any other ship in the game. Use it. Now I can see putting EU on it, but then the points are prohibitively expensive for my taste. Also, as someone mentioned, predator is just about an auto include on this ship so that is somewhat limiting I suppose, but less moving parts is less prone to failure.

tl;dr
Run him naked or with predator and watch your opponents weep.
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Jon NyD

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I'm looking forward to the basic defender with HLC and stealth device in a few different lists (most have the phantom too)
 
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David Pontier
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Three deltas + stealth tore me up. They are the first Imperial ship that you don't need to be scared to get in close at range 1. With the Phantom and the Interceptor, people spend so much time dancing around to stay our of arcs and out of range, that they rarely set up good range 1 shots or use their actions to bolster their attack. With the defender, just fly right at the enemy, take what they throw at you, do a white K-Turn, rinse and repeat.

When it comes to dogfighting, a white k-turn is the best move and nothing else comes close.
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Peter O
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Some folks compare 3x defender unfavorably to 3x Slave I. But three defenders, being smaller, will have an easier time overlapping their arcs for focus fire than 3 slave Is.
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Angelus Seniores
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predator is nice but since defenders have target lock its not as useful, only 1 or 2 rerolls vs reroll all.
give rexler ptl instead and he can both focus and target lock, the stress doesnt inhibit him much.
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Chris Brown
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I would disagree. If you take a focus, you're typically not going to need to reroll more than 1 or 2. Stress on a defender is awful. You still have great maneuverability, but your actionless until you get rid of it and that requires a very predictable move. Also, predator doesn't require you to pick a ship that may or may not be in your firing arc by the time you get to shoot.
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Zack Stackurski
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Its hard to say which is better. I'm interested in playing around with Predator on Rexler with Howlrunner nearby. That's pretty much a free target lock every turn so you can save your focus.

On the other hand Push the Limit is attractive if you can dump the stress more easily. A Black Squadron with Wingman or having Yorr's shuttle around might be worth experimenting with too.

I think the doom and gloom threads have gotten me more excited about trying the Defender than any lists I've actually been able to come up with. Simply learning to fly a ship well that lots of people seem to be disregarding seems like a fun challenge to me!
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Chris Brown
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ZackStack wrote:
On the other hand Push the Limit is attractive if you can dump the stress more easily. A Black Squadron with Wingman or having Yorr's shuttle around might be worth experimenting with too.
This is an idea I was playing with for this list:

Prozac Squadron
Colonel Vessery + Ion Cannon (could swap for Push The Limit)
Yorr + Advanced Sensors + Weapon Engineer
Black Squadron + Wingman
Black Squadron + Wingman

ZackStack wrote:
I think the doom and gloom threads have gotten me more excited about trying the Defender than any lists I've actually been able to come up with. Simply learning to fly a ship well that lots of people seem to be disregarding seems like a fun challenge to me!
I definitely agree. I've seen this mentality crush people. Nobody expects to see 3 or 4 shuttles on the table, it sure wrecked me the first time I encountered it.
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Michael Ptak
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I want to try experimenting with 2 TIE Defender lists to see what I can do with them. One thought is Engine Upgrade and Autoblasters, and maybe Outmaneuver on 2 ships. Risky and relies entirely on that White K-Turn but it can be brutal and something to try. If Autoblasters aren't a thing then drop them for ions and use the points elsewhere.

The advantages defenders have over Firesprays is the smaller base and cannon upgrades can't fire backwards on a Firespray. Better, the White K-turn allows you to change direction immediately without a loss of action. You don't need to spend 2-3 turns turning around, or loosing an action for a 4-K and mandating a green turn.

If you're packing a missile, you will be able to fire it off. In fact white K-turns with cluster missiles are possible with the Defender, and extra munitions is there if you're paranoid about it.
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Dr. Thisson
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Rexler Brath with backup from a Fleet Officer is going to be lethal.

How about "Situation Critical"?

http://goo.gl/xtexkp
 
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Reckless Fable
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Piqsid wrote:
When it comes to dogfighting, a white k-turn is the best move and nothing else comes close.


I think the 1-Turn on the YT-1300 is still the best.
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Reckless Fable
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Thisson wrote:
Rexler Brath with backup from a Fleet Officer is going to be lethal.

How about "Situation Critical"?

http://goo.gl/xtexkp


Stress on a Phantom is bad.
 
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Pierre-Yves Duval
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RecklessFable wrote:
Thisson wrote:
Rexler Brath with backup from a Fleet Officer is going to be lethal.

How about "Situation Critical"?

http://goo.gl/xtexkp


Stress on a Phantom is bad.


Yea I dunno if people think that "Adv Cloak device" is always usable but if you are stressed, it doesn't work.
 
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Cletus Van Damme

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Defenders are the logical response to the "I just wanna joust but tie swarms are sooo exhausting" crowd.
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Dr. Thisson
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RecklessFable wrote:
Thisson wrote:
Rexler Brath with backup from a Fleet Officer is going to be lethal.

How about "Situation Critical"?

http://goo.gl/xtexkp


Stress on a Phantom is bad.


That's what wingman is for!!
 
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Andreas Krüger
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I have not tried it yet, but I am not sure how well formation flying and cloaking work together.
 
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Chris Brown
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
I have not tried it yet, but I am not sure how well formation flying and cloaking work together.
Not so much flying in formation, just get within range 1. "Well i'm going to try to get near this ship, so i'll drop my wingman on the other side of him." That kind of thing. Formation flying can be too predictable, IMO. I prefer the sporadic "Oh look, they just so happen to end up in the same area."
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Brain Less
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Delta Squadron Pilot + HLC
Delta Squadron Pilot + HLC
Captain Jonus + Swarm Tactics + Seismic Charge

Who wants to Joust?


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David Jackman
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Echo + veteran instincts + advanced cloaking device
2x Onyx Squadron Pilot

99 points

I think this list has merit. Clean, good firepower, no easy target. Better PS than rookie pilots, academy pilots, and the incoming z95 swarms.
 
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