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Look, I don't mean to rant here, but -- oh my goodness.

Clearly, a major part of the marketing strategy for this game is to appeal to those who like Shakespeare. So it is baffling to me that the designers would seem to go out of their way to announce that they don't know or care much about Shakespeare.

Even among those who are only a little familiar with these plays, it is has been a longstanding source of embarrassment and amusement that people think the term "wherefore" means "where," and the phrase "Wherefore art thou Romeo?" means "Where are you, Romeo? Come out so I can see you!"

It is one of the most famously silly mistakes that -- let's face it -- cannot possibly be made by anybody who has even glanced at that scene in the play.

"Wherefore art thou Romeo" means "Why are you Romeo?" -- i.e., why did fate give you that name, that name of the house of Montague, with whom my family are mortal enemies?

So here I am, investigating this game as a possible gift to my wife, an enormous Shakespeare fan -- and one of the first promotional images I come across prominently features the phrase "Where art thou, Romeo?"

Ok, I thought, forget it. If the designers clearly do not know or care about the play -- if they haven't even read that famous scene -- why on earth would I inflict that indifference onto my wife, who actually likes the playwright? -- and who is supposed to be their intended audience?

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I believe you're referring to Where Art Thou Romeo?, a micro game based on Council of Verona. The goal of the game is for Juliet to figure out which other player is Romeo, or where he is. It's meant to be a play on the confusion of Wherefore meaning Where, when it means why. Make more sense?
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The question "Wherefore art thou Romeo?" is one of desperation.

I agree with the OP that the phrase is often used incorrectly. As I write this, I'm looking at the William Shakespeare bust on my desk at work and shaking my head.

That said, I haven't played the microgame and it might be decent mechanically. I'm not sure. But the title of the Microgame doesn't use "Wherefore" it uses "Where" and is therefore accurate. Is it playing off the famous line? Yes.
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As mentioned, your rant is misplaced. 1) that is a different game and 2) that different game is appropriately titled for what it does.

I don't know that the designers have announced they don't care about Shakespeare. Most designers at least have some interest in the subject their theme portrays. Is this just an assumption based on jumping to the wrong conclusion?
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Bryan Fischer wrote:
... But the title of the Microgame doesn't use "Wherefore" it uses "Where" and is therefore accurate. Is it playing off the famous line? Yes.


Well, no, it's not playing off the famous line. It's playing off a foolish misreading of the famous line.

And no matter what the intention was, I'll tell you right now that no Shakespeare fan will look at "Where art thou, Romeo" and think the designers were making some knowing joke about that ignorant error. They're going to think, "Lord, there's that foolish error again," and assume everyone involved could care less about the play.

All I'm saying is, it's a bad choice if you're trying to appeal to fans of Shakespeare.

And yes, I understand that I've been referring to a micro-game based on this game by the same publisher. Same publisher, same problem, it seems to me.

 
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Wretched Git wrote:

All I'm saying is, it's a bad choice if you're trying to appeal to fans of Shakespeare.



Assuming that was their target market... sure.
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
As mentioned, your rant is misplaced. 1) that is a different game and 2) that different game is appropriately titled for what it does.

I don't know that the designers have announced they don't care about Shakespeare. Most designers at least have some interest in the subject their theme portrays. Is this just an assumption based on jumping to the wrong conclusion?


1) He is complaining about an ADVERTISEMENT for the game Council of Verona, not the game. Which is ridiculous on other levels.

2) The designers don't know anything about Shakespeare, that's apparent, and that's fine, because it doesn't matter one iota in the actual gameplay.

3) There's no flavor text at all in the actual game aside from the names of the characters in the play. None. Getting bent out of shape about the advertising for the game is pretty silly. This is a small game meant to be a fun, light diversion, not a simulation of Shakespearean plays or a study in linguistics.
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Interestingly I was turned off by the Shakespearean theme and would have never played Council of Verona if it hadn't been for my overly generous Secret Santa. Having played it, the game is pretty good and the Shakespearean theme thankfully doesn't get in the way.
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nomoredroids wrote:
Getting bent out of shape about the advertising for the game is pretty silly.


As at least one prominent reviewer of the game said, some people will be drawn to the game for the theme alone. Those who market games tend to bank on the fact that the theme will draw a certain portion of the market to the game who otherwise would not have investigated it.

So I'm just telling the designers and publishers that I am precisely one of those potential buyers who was drawn to the game by the promise of the theme. And it may be of interest to them to know that the publisher's "Where art thou, Romeo?", associated even tangentially with this game, was a signal to me that nobody involved seems to know much about the play, which turned me off the product.

That may be of interest to them, it may not. But I know some market researchers would actually be interested in that kind of input.
 
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nomoredroids wrote:
2) The designers don't know anything about Shakespeare, that's apparent, and that's fine, because it doesn't matter one iota in the actual gameplay.

Again, is this stated anywhere? I find it hard they don't know anything about Shakespeare. They had to at least look it up on Wikipedia to get the names right...

Perhaps instead of this absurd speculation, you can just ask them what they know about Shakespeare and who their target audience is.

As an aside, I think you can have an interest in Shakespeare without being an expert in it, and at least be intrigued enough by the connection to get the game.
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They're going to think, "Lord, there's that foolish error again," and assume everyone involved could care less about the play.


Grrrrr.
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bazpoint wrote:
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They're going to think, "Lord, there's that foolish error again," and assume everyone involved could care less about the play.


Grrrrr.

Awesome. Wherefore would he use the opposite of the correct saying?
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Wretched Git wrote:

And no matter what the intention was, I'll tell you right now that no Shakespeare fan will look at "Where art thou, Romeo" and think the designers were making some knowing joke about that ignorant error. They're going to think, "Lord, there's that foolish error again," and assume everyone involved could care less about the play.


Wow. Remind me never to speak to anyone who self-identifies as a Shakespeare fan.
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Wretched Git wrote:
nomoredroids wrote:
Getting bent out of shape about the advertising for the game is pretty silly.


So I'm just telling the designers and publishers that I am precisely one of those potential buyers who was drawn to the game by the promise of the theme. And it may be of interest to them to know that the publisher's "Where art thou, Romeo?", associated even tangentially with this game, was a signal to me that nobody involved seems to know much about the play, which turned me off the product.


That's your interpretation. Just like many others in this thread have stated, I see the title of the microgame as a play on words, rather than a demonstration of ignorance.

You can either continue to stew in anger over your interpretation of the title of a $1 microgame, denying yourself the opportunity to enjoy a fantastic and well-reviewed game with a completely different title, or you can give the designer and publisher the benefit of the doubt and come to the same conclusion that the rest of us have.
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Gotta say, I'm a Shakespeare fan and I don't find this to be a big deal at all. Then again, I'm not a pretentious Shakespeare fan, which might be the difference.

The "play" on the original quote from Romeo and Juliet doesn't have to be any deeper than the fact that everyone is familiar with the line on some level. Take that, and exchange the word "Wherefore" with "Where" and yes, the publisher is IN FACT playing off the line.

I think far too often people tend to forget that a famous quote can exist and take on meaning and life outside of its original context. This is part of popular culture.

God forbid for Shakespeare fans to like a game, regardless of title, that might get more people interested in Shakespeare! That would be horrible!
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If Shakespeare were alive today he'd say...

"that's not what I meant, but I see what you did there. Niceth."
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So wait, Shakespeare isn't talking about a guy who turns into a 4 when there's a full moon?
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yoggoth wrote:
So wait, Shakespeare isn't talking about a guy who turns into a 4 when there's a full moon?


I wish I could thumb this twice.
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yoggoth wrote:
So wait, Shakespeare isn't talking about a guy who turns into a 4 when there's a full moon?


Of course not. That would be a wherefour. This is Wherefore, which means he turns into a golfer during a full moon.
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Kengi wrote:
yoggoth wrote:
So wait, Shakespeare isn't talking about a guy who turns into a 4 when there's a full moon?


Of course not. That would be a wherefour. This is Wherefore, which means he turns into a golfer during a full moon.

Actually, that would be werefour and werefore, respectively.
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Kengi wrote:
yoggoth wrote:
So wait, Shakespeare isn't talking about a guy who turns into a 4 when there's a full moon?


Of course not. That would be a wherefour. This is Wherefore, which means he turns into a golfer during a full moon.

Actually, that would be werefour and werefore, respectively.


Clearly that's what I was playing on.
 
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Bryan Fischer wrote:
Gotta say, I'm a Shakespeare fan and I don't find this to be a big deal at all. Then again, I'm not a pretentious Shakespeare fan, which might be the difference.


I'm not sure name-calling is in order, but I hope at least it boosts your self-esteem a little.

Quote:
The "play" on the original quote from Romeo and Juliet doesn't have to be any deeper than the fact that everyone is familiar with the line on some level. Take that, and exchange the word "Wherefore" with "Where" and yes, the publisher is IN FACT playing off the line.


Well, that fact -- and please don't yell it, I can hear ya -- doesn't erase the fact that many Shakespeare fans will see it as an unthinking reiteration of an incredibly common mistake, because that unthinking mistake is incredibly common.

Quote:
I think far too often people tend to forget that a famous quote can exist and take on meaning and life outside of its original context. This is part of popular culture.


Sure -- but, personally, I have no idea what it adds to the "culture" to imagine that Juliet is asking "Where are you?" to a guy she's talking to face-to-face. I think all it says about that aspect of the "culture" is that people like to evoke literary context just to evoke literary context -- a context they don't even care enough about to actually read.

See, that's the real pretension. But in the U.S. especially, there's this George-Bush-esque tendency to switch it around.

I don't care about the appearance that somebody doesn't know about the thing they're quoting (and I'm not talking about the designers here) -- what bugs me is that it suggests they cynically don't care about it -- not even enough to read it -- even as they pretend to do so.

 
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Look, I don't mean to rant here, but -- oh my goodness.


I would ask what you did intend to do here, if not rant?

Quote:
Ok, I thought, forget it. If the designers clearly do not know or care about the play -- if they haven't even read that famous scene -- why on earth would I inflict that indifference onto my wife, who actually likes the playwright?


Kinda presumptuous to think they didn't know or care about the play, isn't that?

And if it bothers you, and your wife, that much, then don't buy the game. What good can come from taking to the internet to rant about what you think the designers thought? Did you contact them to ask why they did it? What, in your mind, is the outcome that resolves this situation for you?
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Wretched Git wrote:
Sure -- but, personally, I have no idea what it adds to the "culture" to imagine that Juliet is asking "Where are you?" to a guy she's talking to face-to-face.

She's soliloquizing on the balcony. She doesn't even know he's in the scene for another sixteen lines. Haven't you at least read the play?
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The OP doth protest* too much, methinks.

*-Yes, I am using the modern definition of 'protest' rather than Shakespeare's meaning.
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