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Subject: First Contact Strategies and Musings rss

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Penguin Bonaparte
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So I'm in a new area briefly, and there's a Collective event tomorrow I might be able to make it to. I've heard that it might be ship pure, but not sure. Since I haven't seen much, and have no idea what the local meta is, what sorts of things are people thinking about trying for this event? I've got two ideas, and am torn.

For one, I'd take Picard with Quantums on Voyager along with Chekov and Sulu, and Martok 9 (just for his captain skill) on the Maht'ha with Projected Stasis field and something, maybe sabotage. Then whatever little ship I get. Basically try to line up a no-shields shot from Picard to hopefully take something out quick. If I lose the stasis field to the cube though that's a problem.

The other idea is to just totally load out a cube with everything possible, and use the sideboard to keep feeding stuff on so that the BCT never takes a shot at me. And bring along whatever little ship I get. If it's not faction pure, I can have Picard as a ringer, or take the energy dissipator in case I hit other Borg.

It seems like this'll be a battle that really forces you to take things out quickly, which initially made me wonder about a Keldon joust, but if the BCT gets in close I'd be hurting for good maneuvers and the 90 pts means I couldn't field three ships effectively before the blind ship. A flagship slingshot might also work well, perhaps. For something like that I was thinking about either Transphasics or quantums and a secondary torpedo launcher. I'm just a little worried about getting the shots off. What are others thinking?
 
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Kevin Roberson
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I wouldn't use Torps on this one at all. With stuff constantly getting assimilated you don't want to invest six points on something you may only get one shot from, or worse, re-enable then get it stolen after you've wasted the action.

My plan isn't ship pure but is the following:

Voyager with flagship independent (federation)
Weyoun 6
Ablative Generatorx2
Trashpasic Torpedo
Boheeka
Alexander
Tom Paris
Pavel Chekov

Once the ablative generator token is down, it doesn't matter if the cards themselves get taken, transphasic fires as soon as you get into weapons range (don't save it for battlestations) and everything else is protected by Weyoun. The blind booster ship can go die for all I care since if I only have one ship and I hang out next to the BCT, my opponents get hit twice by it. My plan is to make myself 100% immune to the BCT and let it do my fighting for me. I plan to just run away from opponents until they get assimilated.
 
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Ted Kay
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Turbowombat wrote:
I wouldn't use Torps on this one at all. With stuff constantly getting assimilated you don't want to invest six points on something you may only get one shot from, or worse, re-enable then get it stolen after you've wasted the action.

My plan isn't ship pure but is the following:

Voyager with flagship independent (federation)
Weyoun 6
Ablative Generatorx2
Trashpasic Torpedo
Boheeka
Alexander
Tom Paris
Pavel Chekov

Once the ablative generator token is down, it doesn't matter if the cards themselves get taken, transphasic fires as soon as you get into weapons range (don't save it for battlestations) and everything else is protected by Weyoun. The blind booster ship can go die for all I care. My plan is to make myself 100% immune to the BCT and let it do my fighting for me. I plan to just run away from opponents until they get assimilated.


I was under the impression Weyoun doesn't protect upgrades affected by the BCT, as they are removed from play rather than simply discarded.
 
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Kevin Roberson
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The rules specifically say the word "discard."

Under the description for the resistance token action, second bullet point:

"If you roll any other result, you may choose which Upgrade form your ship is assimilated (i.e. which Upgrade from your ship to discard)."

Seems straight forward to me.
 
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Kevin Roberson
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oo, however, double checking the FAQ I appear to be wrong about the Ablative Generator. I'm not sure why this was ruled this way, but I guess if you don't have the card, the token goes away at the end of the end phase. So looks like I might be using the Defiant's cloaking device for 9 points instead and just never ever decloaking.
 
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Ted Kay
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Turbowombat wrote:
The rules specifically say the word "discard."

Under the description for the resistance token action, second bullet point:

"If you roll any other result, you may choose which Upgrade form your ship is assimilated (i.e. which Upgrade from your ship to discard)."

Seems straight forward to me.


Under the rules for BCT:

"The BCT will target the 3 ships that are closest to it within Range 1-2 and assimilate (remove from game) 1 Upgrade card (at random) from each ship."

I would imagine this supersedes the language describing how Resistance Tokens work.
 
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Kevin Roberson
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When a card is discarded it is removed from the game. These things are not in conflict. This isn't Magic: the Gathering, there's no way to retrieve things after they've been discarded, it's not some alternate play zone. The resistance token language just adds specificity to how it is removed from the game: by discarding.

From the official rulebook: "Return discarded Upgrade Cards to the game box; they cannot be used for the remainder of the game."

This sounds entirely coterminous with "remove from game".
 
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charles skrobis
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Honestly, I think that the intent of the scenario is that the upgrades are gone from play, and there isn't any card effects that can stop it, and that the wording is just a lack of in depth grammar checking on the designer's part. (We have seen that before.) So from my understanding, the borg just take stuff so that you just inevitably crash from losing stuff no matter what. (Also he said ship pure, so putting fed crew with a dominion captain doesn't work.)

So, given the point here is recommendations for play in the not too distant future, my plan that I've been meaning to test has been to use Sisko with the Elite Attack Die. Because double the crits, with a re-roll, so that resistence is really more like fifty fifty on losing anything in the first place. Might not pack the punch and action piccard or flagship can, but if I run around the board and hope the borg token hits you just as much as me, I'll win out with attrition, and hopefully be able to swoop back in the take the kill shot at the last minute.

Final recommendation, on measuring for the Borg Cube Token, no matter where it goes, there is a 6 inch by 6 inch area in all 4 corners where it can't get you in range on turn 1, assuming it's centered properly. (You can measure the 6 inch area really well with the 4 forwards template, given that's exactly 6 inches.)

Past that, load up your ships with non-discard upgrades, and hope to have the borg hurt your opponent more than they hurt you, especially when they can start making 8 die attacks on ships after they take your captains.

Good Luck
 
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Kevin Roberson
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Well ok, pursuant to the intent of this thread, you don't actually have to "hope" they hit your opponent more than you. This can be skewed. For example run a 1 or 2 ship build with big upgrade bars. Fed Excelsior and Voyager with Torres for example, and then buy upgrades in quantity over quality. Lojour and the EMH are perfect for this since they're basically "discard" cards that don't "discard" when used (without The Doctor you would never re-enable them) Remember, the fewer ships you have, the more they swing at your opponents.

If you have more upgrades and fewer ships, your opponents start eating 8 dice attacks long before you do since they're eating, on average, more upgrades per turn from a smaller pool of upgrades.
 
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Ted Kay
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Turbowombat wrote:
When a card is discarded it is removed from the game. These things are not in conflict. This isn't Magic: the Gathering, there's no way to retrieve things after they've been discarded, it's not some alternate play zone. The resistance token language just adds specificity to how it is removed from the game: by discarding.

From the official rulebook: "Return discarded Upgrade Cards to the game box; they cannot be used for the remainder of the game."

This sounds entirely coterminous with "remove from game".


In OP play, discarded cards go two different places. If if I discard my own card, a la Cheat Death, it goes under my ship card and still counts as part of my surviving fleet for points totals. If my opponent forces me to discard a card, a la Sabotage, then it does not go under my ship card and is not considered part of my surviving fleet.

The way the scenario is written, I'm 99% sure that an outside force removing your card from play is not something Weyoun can stop with his ability. I could be wrong but have yet to see it ruled the way you interpret it.
 
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Kevin Roberson
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Well in that case, what do you all think of the following?

Resource: Flagship Independent (Romulan) (10)

S'Gorn (22)
Khan Singh (5)
Flagship (0)
Superior Intellect (5)
Joachim (4)
Follower of Khan (1)
Missile Launchers (3)
Impulse Overload (2)
Ship SP: 42

I.R.W. Valdore (30)
Donatra (4)
Bochra (1)
Tactical Officer (3)
Ship SP: 38

Total Build SP: 90

Generated by STAW Builder
http://www.dracossoftware.com/STAWHome.html


Obviously the goal here is for S'Gorn to completely shred their upgrade bar so they get Borged before I do. I know the Missile Launchers don't activate S'Gorn's ability but they do activate Joachim's and Donatra's.

If OP wants a ship pure version just replace the missile launchers with Counter Attack or Massacre on Donatra.
 
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Penguin Bonaparte
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Yeah, I suppose the risk of losing an upgrade makes the stasis/torpedo strategy a bad one. Just not sure how to get a lot of dice and take out a borg ship if it comes up.
 
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