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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: China expansion? rss

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Jerome Chan
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Is there an expansion for the China? Particularly the warring states historical period?
 
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Leo Zappa
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None that I'm aware of. I think the problem in seeing such an expansion is that there is little knowledge of these wars in the West, which is where the majority of the market for this game system exists. Heck, there isn't yet a European Middle Ages expansion, and there's considerably more interest in that age in the West than there is in ancient Chinese wars. Even the American Civil War has failed to gain enough traction to get two different attempts at porting the system over to the ACW to take hold - both Hasbro efforts to launch "Battlecry" failed to sell enough units to justify any expansions by Hasbro. I think the best you could hope for would be if someone were to come up with a home-made published set of scenarios, for which you'd have to proxy the unit pieces.

There was a version put out there covering some Japanese samurai battles, but I can't tell you how successful it was. Samurai Battles. And, of course, there's BattleLore, now in its second edition. Not Chinese, but fantasy, which I suppose has more fans!
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Kent Reuber
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There's nothing for China yet. The Eastern Kingdoms army is used for Middle East and Indian armies (usually vs. Rome or Macedonia), but there's been nothing done for China.

There's nothing to say that you couldn't do Warring States scenarios, but you'd have to make your own.

DBA has the following for a 12 unit Warring States China army:

3xHeavy Chariots, (1xCavalry+2xLight Horse or 3xSpear), 2x(Spear or Warband), 2xCrossbow, 2xPsiloi (skirmishers)

Which would translate to the following in C&CA:

3 Heavy Chariots
1 Medium Cavalry, 2 Light Cavalry, or 3 Medium Infantry
2 Medium infantry or 2 Warriors
2 Bows
2 Light Infantry
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Mark McG
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Quick answer is no.

There is/was a concept of extending Samurai Battles to Korea and China, but I suspect that would be the medieval Ming period if that happened.

There is in theory no reason why C&C Ancients couldn't be expanded to Asian battles with appropriate Army Lists
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Robin Reeve
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Samurai Battles were a PITA to assemble, as they have unmounted figurines.
This put me completely off, as I am not a figurinist, but a boardgamer.

I would dream of a CCA "block units" about China and Japan.
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Mark McG
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desertfox2004 wrote:
Heck, there isn't yet a European Middle Ages expansion, and there's considerably more interest in that age in the West than there is in ancient Chinese wars.

And, of course, there's BattleLore, now in its second edition. Not Chinese, but fantasy, which I suppose has more fans!


BattleLore 1st edition is a medieval version of the Commands & Colors system at it's core. Flick through some of the scenarios
http://www.battleloremaster.com/adventures_official.html

That being said, there is a level of fantasy placed over it, some lightly like calling the Scots as Dwarves, and the Medieval Lore cards, and some much more fulsome with fantastic creatures and magic spells.

BattleLore 2nd edition is a High Fantasy setting that has only a passing similarity to BattleLore 1st ed. I've not played it, but I understand it to be completely without any historical basis.


 
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Robin Reeve
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desertfox2004 wrote:
Even the American Civil War has failed to gain enough traction to get two different attempts at porting the system over to the ACW to take hold - both Hasbro efforts to launch "Battlecry" failed to sell enough units to justify any expansions by Hasbro.
It hasn't to do with the theme, but with the fact that Battle Cry really is overly simplistic, at a point where there is no incentive for the defender to hold his positions (no geographical objectives, just banners for strict elimination of units), no battle back mechanics which lead to stupid maneuvers, etc.
I am quite sure that an ACW version would sell well, if it were as good as the Ancients or Napoleonic versions of CCA.
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Minot
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Robin wrote:
at a point where there is no incentive for the defender to hold his positions (no geographical objectives, just banners for strict elimination of units), no battle back mechanics which lead to stupid maneuvers


That's not strictly true for the 150th Ed. Several of the original scenarios (Shiloh, 2nd Day at Gettysburg, Pickett's Charge, New Hope Church) were re-worked to give the at least one side some geographical objectives to achieve, and that mechanic was also included in some of the new 150th scenarios. And in fairness, several core CCN and CCA scenarios do not have terrain objectives. Additionally, BC150 introduced a (very limited) variation of "battle back" with the "Fight Back" card.

I do not doubt that the perception of BC150 as a "light" wargame has hurt its sales in some quarters, but at the initial version did get Borg enough publicity to press on with Memoir and the CC series. IMO, BC150's downfall has more to do with combination of poor marketing by Hasbro and the general decline in popularity of the "beer and pretzels" "toy soldier war game. Aside from Days of Wonder with Memoir and Sails of Glory, I cannot think of anyone who is successfully making new miniature-based war games.
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Mark McG
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NimitsTexan wrote:
Aside from Days of Wonder with Memoir and Sails of Glory, I cannot think of anyone who is successfully making new miniature-based war games.


Wings of Glory
Flames of War
Art of Tactic
BattleLore 2nd ed.
Star Wars X-Wing
Star Trek
Field of Glory

and all those Risk editions.
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Minot
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Let me caveat that by war game, I mean historical war game (Star Trek, Star Wars, and Battle Lore are out, as are those Risk variants). Of the others, Flames of War, Field of Glory, and Wings of War are miniature games (rulers and all), not board games using miniatures (as is my example of Sails of Glory, as well, I suppose).

What I mean by miniature-based war games are, in addition to Battle Cry and Memoir, things like Conquest of the Empire, Shogun, Napoleon in Europe, Axis and Allies 1941, etc. Those types of games do not seem to do as well as they once did.
 
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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Minedog3 wrote:
Quick answer is no.

There is/was a concept of extending Samurai Battles to Korea and China, but I suspect that would be the medieval Ming period if that happened.



When I spoke to RB he mentioned the system was planned/built/developed for China... I had the impression it would be the same time period as the Sengoku of Samurai Battles
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Mark McG
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NimitsTexan wrote:
Let me caveat that by war game, I mean historical war game (Star Trek, Star Wars, and Battle Lore are out,


what do you mean, Star Wars is historical.. sure, it was a long time ago in a galaxy far,far away...
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