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GameZone Miniatures held a presentation of HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Edition at Desafio Wargames in Zaragoza, Spain 28th June 2014. Here is a full video of the happening in Spanish.


EDIT: An alternative video with an interview. All in Spanish of course:
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Anybody care to translate, or at least summarize the important bits?
 
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"We are 6 months from our delivery date, but we don't even have an actual game prototype or rules to show, so here's a bunch of renders of weird dice, some minis and some photos of our guys hard at work."
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"And we're not going to tell you that these pictures were taken fifteen years ago when we had staff. Oh, and the frozen Han Solo we didn't pay for the IP, either." laugh

Anyway, I'm getting a better idea of what international backers go through for a US KS. Not only are they paying higher shipping, getting their stuff later, they also have to deal with the language barrier! I'm sure that, over the internet, *reading* a foreign language (especially with the help of Google translator) is now more common than *speaking* it. If there's an application that translates audio to text, let me know!
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Some important info:

-"we have production at 50%, there already lot of figures made, although we dont want to show any of them (only renders)"

-"The dice are already produced, the gamemaster board is also a dice tower (I guess in order to prevent any cheating in the roll of these special dices)

-About the orcs renders, he said that they are still in progress because they need to add a bit of ugliness (scars, asymetry,...) to made them to look like real orcs.

- In the heroes case he said the barbarian sword has got smaller, and the dwarf has got wider and other minor changes. (he spoke that part in past tense, like already done, unlike the orc part where he spoke in future tense, we need to add a couple scars here and here and made that armour or sword less shiny and new)

-On monday every backer should receive an email to be able to access to their purchase and see final transport cost, and backers will be able to add more contents to their original purchase. Specifically he refers to a backer level 1 being able to pay the difference to get level 3 access or to buy some of the addons or more copies

-The non-CF version could have less quality in some components than the anniversary/CF version. He put a price for the non-CF version 92 euros (versus the 80 euros of the CF version)

Some numbers: he said they had to do 1.800.000 doors, and said they have 4 persons working in the production departament, 2 in computers, 3 sculptors and 2 illustrators. Size of the board is 57x 78 cm, with every square 3x3 cm (in the original one squares was 2x2 cm) although figures will be the same scale than original (that allows for the more "acrobatic" stance of some figures)


In Q&A (of the first video, not the second one)


-"I am not worried at all about any legal rights. I am worried about problems related with the production, with the miniatures, etc. but not about legality. This is a subject with a lot to talk about but little to be worried"

-"The heroes will "level up" not by increasing life or mana points but by getting additional skills"

-"We plan to finish alpha rules as soon as possible to playtest it during summer with several groups, one of them comprised only of anglospeaking players living in Spain in order to get the beta rules after summer"



(bear in mind this traslation is not official and I could have misunderstood something (or everything)
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Wait, so they don't have alpha rules? Shouldn't that have been done before the campaign even started? How do they know stuff like the 'critical hit' mechanic will even work?
How on earth will you go from alpha rules to final AND have it printed within 6 months?!
This project is simply bizarre.
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
Wait, so they don't have alpha rules?


That's odd. They should at least be in Beta by now.

Also: 50% of minis are done, but they can't show any of them? That's rather odd. If this wasn't a company known for a somewhat nebulous relationship with the truth, I'd probably stop at saying "that's odd" but considering who we're dealing with that seems more likely to be an out and out lie.

Also, this:

Quote:
-"I am not worried at all about any legal rights. I am worried about problems related with the production, with the miniatures, etc. but not about legality. This is a subject with a lot to talk about but little to be worried"


is also kind of disingenuous. At minimum, Moon Design has the potential to stop shipments to the U.S. to protect their Trademark. Why aren't they even acknowledging that? EDIT: Also factor in that they should be aware of this as they applied for, and were denied, a U.S. Trademark. shake
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For those who dont speak spanish, you can use the "subtitle option" in youtube and then use the translator. Its "google translate app" so dont expect to be perfect :)

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vica8081 wrote:
"I am not worried at all about any legal rights."


I didn't mention it in my Hasbro IP lawsuits thread, but, while searching on the "Hasbro vs. Cryptozoic" lawsuit (May, 2014), one of the posts said that the creators were asked if Hasbro would sue them because of the similarities between their Hex online computer game (funded June, 2013), and the Magic the Gathering CCG.

They said no.

Hasbro didn't act until Hex was in beta, presumably because Hasbro could then cite similarities between the Hex and Magic games. One possible reason why no physical product or rules were shown at the HQ25 presentation was to prevent information Hasbro could use against them (although using the HeroQuest logo on their video could be, imo).

Personally, I don't think Hasbro cares about the backer's copies. They'll act when they think they have the most ammunition to force GZ into a settlement (and, if they can't settle, they will bring GZ to court like they did Famolir games). However, I have no idea when Moon Designs will act, how they will act, and how it will affect USA backers.

EDIT: Phooey. No luck finding captions on the interview video?

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Sam and Max wrote:
However, I have no idea when Moon Designs will act, how they will act, and how it will affect USA backers.


Discussed in this thread:

GameZones US Trademark Application initially refused.

And addressed directly in this post by Jeff Richard of Moon Design:

Re: GameZones US Trademark Application initially refused.

Essentially, they'll act as soon as there's an actual attempt to distribute in the U.S.

I'm curious if MD has a valid Trademark in any other countries - their products are available around the world, AFAIK and how it could affect things if they do.

Linked in the OP of that thread was GZ's Trademark application:

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/documentviewer?caseId=sn86131779&docId...

This was rejected, partially because of potential confusion with Moon Design's (though there were some other issues as well). It does say that the registrant can appeal the decision. I don't think we've seen any evidence one way or another about whether any such attempt was made.
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RedSquig wrote:
For those who dont speak spanish, you can use the "subtitle option" in youtube and then use the translator. Its "google translate app" so dont expect to be perfect



That automatic subtitles are a great idea, but they simply doesnt work. I tried myself to see if it can help me somehow to improve a particular traslation of a certain phrase and I quickly realized how bad the traslation it is. The results are quite funny but they are barely understandble even when they are correctly traslating the right words (and not adding or missing words with happen most of the time)
 
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vica8081 wrote:
That automatic subtitles are a great idea, but they simply doesnt work.


Yeah, I didn't even bother. Considering how bad simple transcriptions of voice often are, adding a translation on top of that seems like asking for trouble.
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Tzer wrote:
"We are 6 months from our delivery date, but we don't even have an actual game prototype or rules to show, so here's a bunch of renders of weird dice, some minis and some photos of our guys hard at work."


That you post have more than twice thumbs than mine I think it shows something. People doesnt really care about what GZ has to say? Better a good joke than information? If there are "good" news about HQ25 I prefer not to hear it? In anycase is interesting (and not I dont give a shit to have more thumbs or even GG (I only used it to tip others users anyways)

In the second video the information is less relevant and more about concept art, background setting (a coast of abandoned cities because sea have been invading the ground (similar to nowadays with the melting of north and south pole) I like the idea a lot because this way you have to explore with low tide and retire before the tide get high, easily adding a timer to the game, although that "timer" ot the tide issue is not really discussed in the interview.

The only relevant info is that most of the backers are spanish, and US backers are only a small fraction of the total, that some of the miniatures will come in several parts and you have to glue them in order to de able to play with them, so in that regard the game is closer to a miniature wargame than a boardgame "open and play"

GZ will go back to zero information again after the event, although he said something about maybe another update in 3 months time. And he still expect to deliver in time, "we will work on weekends if it is needed to"

He also said that although basic quests can be played completely only with pledge level 1, there will be also optionals "you can add this z component here" in the quests so you can put the strecht goals if/when the players are more experienced with the game.


Also about the rules Dionisio said that they will try to keep rules simple so you can still play HQ25 with "non-gamers", although they will expand a bit in the mind point/magic side, he also talks how HQ rules are in the DNA of many current dungeoncrawlers, saying that the 80-90% of rules of dungeoncrawlers are the HQ rules and that they will not depart from that.

He also said a couple times that everyone played HQ with home rules and he think that this will happen again this time, and that HQ25 rules (alpha or beta) will not be public.

He also said that this event was not the official presentation and that the official presentation only will take place when all the copies of the game are produced and in transport to their backers


With this last two paragraphs info. If HASBRO plan to sue when is going to do it?

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And thank you again for the translation Vic! Let's see and hope the email comes this week. I don't understand (ok maybe I do - but don't quite like) the radio silence from GameZone Miniatures part again... If I get my copy within 6 coming months and I am happy with the quality and game, so be it. They just have before promised to keep backers informed and even let us see the beta rules on September-October. Though according to your translation they may have just referred to alpha rules this time.
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Yes, thanks for posting the info you could, Vic.

vica8081 wrote:
With this last two paragraphs info. If HASBRO plan to sue when is going to do it?


As has already been discussed, the short answer is that if they're going to sue, they'll do so when they know that there is something actionable.

I don't think that anyone outside of Hasbro's legal team can say anything more specific than that.
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RedShark92 wrote:
Yes, thanks for posting the info you could, Vic.

vica8081 wrote:
With this last two paragraphs info. If HASBRO plan to sue when is going to do it?


As has already been discussed, the short answer is that if they're going to sue, they'll do so when they know that there is something actionable.

I don't think that anyone outside of Hasbro's legal team can say anything more specific than that.


So this means that backers will get their games, and only then HASBRO could /may sue. Because short of HASBRO suing, I think is pretty clear that GZ is going to produce the game, in December, or a couple (or six) months later
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RedShark92 wrote:
Yes, thanks for posting the info you could, Vic.

vica8081 wrote:
With this last two paragraphs info. If HASBRO plan to sue when is going to do it?


As has already been discussed, the short answer is that if they're going to sue, they'll do so when they know that there is something actionable.

I don't think that anyone outside of Hasbro's legal team can say anything more specific than that.


Vic, you've had this answered repeatedly for you, with the same answer, that hasn't changed. They'll sue when there's a finished product showed so that they can determine what, if any, causes of action to bring. Not before. The answer hasn't changed; no one's moving the goal post as things happen but Hasbro doesn't sue. You ask this after every post, you get the same answer, and then you keep asking as if somehow, you're proven right by the fact that things are going exactly as everyone has told you they'd go.

As to the presentation, the dice themselves have no chance of working generally. Let alone in a dice tower.
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vica8081 wrote:

So this means that backers will get their games, and only then HASBRO could /may sue.


No. There's a ton of time between GZ finalizing their design and backers getting their games. A ton.
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vica8081 wrote:
So this means that backers will get their games, and only then HASBRO could /may sue.


That's certainly one possibility, but I don't think it's definite.
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Idaho11 wrote:
As to the presentation, the dice themselves have no chance of working generally. Let alone in a dice tower.


I guess I'm not clear on that. Is it actually supposed to be a real possibility for these dice to land on the 'standing' position?

It seems obvious that that's the intent, but it's going to be so unlikely to actually happen that it makes me wonder why they'd bother.
 
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RedShark92 wrote:
Idaho11 wrote:
As to the presentation, the dice themselves have no chance of working generally. Let alone in a dice tower.


I guess I'm not clear on that. Is it actually supposed to be a real possibility for these dice to land on the 'standing' position?

It seems obvious that that's the intent, but it's going to be so unlikely to actually happen that it makes me wonder why they'd bother.


Well, double snouters should be pretty unlikely, too, but they happen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_the_Pigs

I think the intent is to reduce the possibility of it happening, making the standing die a rarity, but probably some sort of event or critical success/failure or something along those lines is the idea. I don't hate the idea, but I bet they have to really play with the size to get them to roll standing as often as they want (I assume they are aiming for something obviously smaller than one in eight).
 
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RedShark92 wrote:
Idaho11 wrote:
As to the presentation, the dice themselves have no chance of working generally. Let alone in a dice tower.


I guess I'm not clear on that. Is it actually supposed to be a real possibility for these dice to land on the 'standing' position?

It seems obvious that that's the intent, but it's going to be so unlikely to actually happen that it makes me wonder why they'd bother.


Neither am I, but, for some reason, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming that they designed stupid dice for at least some purpose - to have a chance of landing on that side.

With the dice tower, that will NEVER* happen.

*I mean, I'm sure it'll happen a few times. But if it lands that way for you, go buy a lotto ticket.
 
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Idaho11 wrote:
RedShark92 wrote:
Yes, thanks for posting the info you could, Vic.

vica8081 wrote:
With this last two paragraphs info. If HASBRO plan to sue when is going to do it?


As has already been discussed, the short answer is that if they're going to sue, they'll do so when they know that there is something actionable.

I don't think that anyone outside of Hasbro's legal team can say anything more specific than that.


Vic, you've had this answered repeatedly for you, with the same answer, that hasn't changed. They'll sue when there's a finished product showed so that they can determine what, if any, causes of action to bring. Not before. The answer hasn't changed; no one's moving the goal post as things happen but Hasbro doesn't sue. You ask this after every post, you get the same answer, and then you keep asking as if somehow, you're proven right by the fact that things are going exactly as everyone has told you they'd go.

As to the presentation, the dice themselves have no chance of working generally. Let alone in a dice tower.


You are right in that I ask the same question again and again and is because I am quite interested in the project but I didnt back it because I felt it was too risky, so when I ask this I am really asking myself "Is too risky now?" I had no problem waiting for the game and paying a bit extra 92 instead 80 or whatever instead 110) to avoid any stress-related during the production (I value more my stress than 20$) but time pass and things get a bit clearer and then I ask myself Is too risky now? Because to tell the truth I like what I have seen, and if there are not risk involved I prefer to pay 110 than 140-150, and maybe the risk is the opposite, only backers get the game, then GZ is sued and closed, so who knows? There is now a new time to get a copy if you know a backer and I think this time I can pledge one.


About the dice I think is a good idea, if you think about it a critic only happens 3-5% of time, so if this special side only land once on 20 or 30 rolls (3 or 4 times less probable to land on this side than in the regular ones) then it will work great. The only isuue with these dices is the players trying to cheat, rolling sideways or something, but the dice tower prevent that.

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vica8081 wrote:
GZ will go back to zero information again after the event, although he said something about maybe another update in 3 months time.

HQ25 rules (alpha or beta) will not be public.

He also said that this event was not the official presentation and that the official presentation only will take place when all the copies of the game are produced and in transport to their backers


I see no benefit to A) going radio silent for three months, B) keeping any form of the rules hidden, and C) not making any kind of presentation until after games have been delivered. Does he actually think this will keep him from getting sued?

A) Going silent is asinine and pointless. It serves no purpose other than getting free reign to not get shit done on time. It's dodging the accountability of the crowd funding platform and thinking it's okay.

B) GZ is NOT a boardgame company. This has been clear from the very beginning. GZ hires people to make miniatures and then sells them with their own name stamped on the packaging. To think that a non-boardgame company can make a successful rules set without any feedback from the public is absurd! I've seen successful, well-known boardgame companies produce terrible rules, why would anyone give GZ a pass on this?

C) Clearly this guy has no idea how to sell a game.
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kelann08 wrote:
vica8081 wrote:
GZ will go back to zero information again after the event, although he said something about maybe another update in 3 months time.

HQ25 rules (alpha or beta) will not be public.

He also said that this event was not the official presentation and that the official presentation only will take place when all the copies of the game are produced and in transport to their backers


I see no benefit to A) going radio silent for three months, B) keeping any form of the rules hidden, and C) not making any kind of presentation until after games have been delivered. Does he actually think this will keep him from getting sued?

A) Going silent is asinine and pointless. It serves no purpose other than getting free reign to not get shit done on time. It's dodging the accountability of the crowd funding platform and thinking it's okay.

B) GZ is NOT a boardgame company. This has been clear from the very beginning. GZ hires people to make miniatures and then sells them with their own name stamped on the packaging. To think that a non-boardgame company can make a successful rules set without any feedback from the public is absurd! I've seen successful, well-known boardgame companies produce terrible rules, why would anyone give GZ a pass on this?

C) Clearly this guy has no idea how to sell a game.


About the radio silence, Dionisio said that he doesnt need nor care to sell anything more, he only needs to deliver the copies to his backers and then the product will talk by itself. You are right that is probably not the better way to do bussiness and that he could do more money with more info, but he probably has already sold too many copies according to the size of his factory and he is currently overloaded with them

About the rules, it is clear that they are not a priority for him, so dont expect anything revolutionary. He speak about keeping the gateway nature of the game, that one of the strong points of HQ it was that you can play it with your sister in law and with your cousin, and then he also talk about people home ruling the game, so maybe the broken official rules and fan home rules was not a crazy hypothesis.
 
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