Mark Turner
United Kingdom
Farnham
Surrey
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I realise I may be a curmudgeon here, but I feel a certain delight that we are seeing a company design, develop and market a game without going through the kickstarter preorder store. It's great to see the Hotness react with such enthusiasm.

A brand I trust has worked on a product, and is now offering it to me for sale. IE this is good, honest commerce... without all this nonsense about 'early bird, only kickstarter gets the full game, yadadayada, buy now get the product sometime next year, maybe, possibly as advertised, or maybe not at all' that the games industry threatens to become, if the kickstarter store's 'no customer rights' model becomes predominant.

This game looks great, very much looking forward to seeing it on the table. Rock on Plaid Hat.
74 
 Thumb up
0.29
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aditya C
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I like PHG and their games and I preordered DoW, but I don't think there is a reason to berate kickstarter games to praise them.
20 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vincent Streuner
United States
Concord
North Carolina
flag msg tools
"Cambot! Gypsy! Tom Servo! Crooooow!"
badge
“Look at me! I’m dancin’! I’m dancin’!” (Claptrap)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ja, as a completionist/collector, Kickstarter exclusives actually deter me from investing in a game. I either have to buy a game before it's tried and tested by the masses, or spend an exorbitant price on eBay or the BGG Marketplace if the game does prove to be worthy of ownership. I, too, prefer to buy the olde fashion way.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Chaplin
United Kingdom
Nottingham
Ice-choked tower, Mondavia, Nanglangka.
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Caibre wrote:
I like PHG and their games and I preordered DoW, but I don't think there is a reason to berate kickstarter games to praise them.


It is becoming increasingly difficult for non-Kickstarter games to get any traction.

Kickstartered projects seem to have this thing whereby they direct their backers to BGG to 'like' the game, and especially 'thumb' their pictures. What, in real terms, effect a BGG front-page image has on sales is debatable, but it does help get games on the Hotness - and that is important.

You see this every week here. Pretty meh-looking selections of game cards get, like, 200+ thumbs. That is a near-impossible mountain to climb now without Kickstarter.

I like Kickstarter. I'm just sayin'.


20 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eduardo Guimarães
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There are ton of new games that get a lot of attention and are not kickstarter funded. Terra Mystica, Nations, Robinson Crusoe, etc. the list is endless.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aditya C
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
A vast majority of the games in the hotness list are non-kickstarter. And plenty of small companies that do not use kickstarter also drum up support for their game through the use of blogs and teaser pictures.

There is nothing wrong with advertising your game, which you can do even if you don't use kickstarter. Heck I found Dead of Winter through advertising and the list of mechanics teasers on this forum. How exactly is that different from a kickstarter project doing the same? And there is nothing wrong with doing this anyway.

Regardless, I don't intend to continue in another "Is kickstarter destroying our hobby" debate.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Knepper
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And there is nothing wrong/sinister with funding a game project through Kickstarter. shake
3 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Graham Charlton
United Kingdom
East Barnet
Hertfordshire
flag msg tools
badge
www.finchleygamesclub.org
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
eduguima wrote:
There are ton of new games that get a lot of attention and are not kickstarter funded. Terra Mystica, Nations, Robinson Crusoe, etc. the list is endless.


None of those are particularly new, and back when they were they certainly weren't getting this level of attention.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Fisher
United States
Downingtown
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RandomGraham wrote:
eduguima wrote:
There are ton of new games that get a lot of attention and are not kickstarter funded. Terra Mystica, Nations, Robinson Crusoe, etc. the list is endless.


None of those are particularly new, and back when they were they certainly weren't getting this level of attention.


Yet they still are now? I'm not sure what you meant.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aditya C
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
And Dead of Winter is not a kickstarter and it's getting just as much or more attention than the most popular kickstarters.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moose Detective
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
Than Sense
badge
Is it a moose that became a detective ? Or a detective who searches for moose?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is an odd game to choose for this rant as the pre-order campaign has been run EXACTLY like a kick-starter.

They put the pre-order up at the end of last year and said the game would be ready in March or so. With shipping, their "discounted" price is still more than it would be at CoolStuff/MiniatureMarket.

But wait, if you pre-order you get the special Kodiak Colby standee and card that will otherwise only be available as a special promo and not for sale!

Did we say March? We meant June!

Did we say June? We meant August!

And soon - we know we said pre-orders would get the game first, but we have to sell it at GenCon! (Edit July 2nd: Colby from PHG has scolded me and said this snarky prediction will not happen, "We have never, and will never, sell copies of a game at a convention while people have copies on pre-order that we haven't yet shipped to them.")

As far as me and the money missing from my wallet are concerned, this IS a kickstarter. My wallet doesn't really care if the money was charged directly to PHG or if it went to them through KS and Amazon. Either way I paid for the game forever ago, its late, and I'm not getting a particularly good deal.


Except of course that I'm not going to GenCon and this game looks absolutely ridiculously amazing and I WANT IT so I don't care.


So yeah - EXACTLY like a kickstarter. (Edit July 2nd: Except without the selling it in advance of pre-orders, which is a good thing.)
41 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Graham Charlton
United Kingdom
East Barnet
Hertfordshire
flag msg tools
badge
www.finchleygamesclub.org
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lfisher wrote:
RandomGraham wrote:
eduguima wrote:
There are ton of new games that get a lot of attention and are not kickstarter funded. Terra Mystica, Nations, Robinson Crusoe, etc. the list is endless.


None of those are particularly new, and back when they were they certainly weren't getting this level of attention.


Yet they still are now? I'm not sure what you meant.


I mean they aren't comparable. When those games were at the "not quite yet released" stage there wasn't anywhere near this level of excitement about them. Sure they're talked about a lot now, but that's with months of actual playtime.

I can't think of any game since Dominion that has had this level of pre-release buzz without also having a complex kickstarter campaign causing it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moose Detective
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
Than Sense
badge
Is it a moose that became a detective ? Or a detective who searches for moose?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RandomGraham wrote:

I can't think of any game since Dominion that has had this level of pre-release buzz without also having a complex kickstarter campaign causing it.


Marvel Dice Masters?
16 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Noble Knave
United States
Santa Barbara
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think Kickstarter is fantastic for brand new publishers to get off the ground. Once a company is established, turning to KickStarter rather than reinvesting their revenue only crowds out new guys and undermines the entire concept of KS.

Rock on PHG. Looking forward to this one.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Gousis
United States
Ellicott City
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Plaid Hat does a great job of promoting their games. I have preordered many in the past, and I preordered this one too.

I do agree their preorder system works exactly like Kickstarter though. Hope this game lives up to the hype.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freelance Police
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, since I don't play Eurogames, I only found about this game through a Zombicide KS thread. whistle

I found out (and pledged for) the Stonemaier Games Eurogame Token Box (I'm using it for miniatures bits) because they use KS. laugh
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Red Team
badge
#YOLO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thenobleknave wrote:
I think Kickstarter is fantastic for brand new publishers to get off the ground. Once a company is established, turning to KickStarter rather than reinvesting their revenue only crowds out new guys and undermines the entire concept of KS.

Rock on PHG. Looking forward to this one.
#truthbomb

Using Kickstarter in the manner described by the OP is so amazingly lame. I really hope boardgame publishers wise up in 2015. #spiritofkickstarter
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MoonSylver
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thenobleknave wrote:
I think Kickstarter is fantastic for brand new publishers to get off the ground. Once a company is established, turning to KickStarter rather than reinvesting their revenue only crowds out new guys and undermines the entire concept of KS.

Rock on PHG. Looking forward to this one.


Exactly. For my 1st, & thus far only, Kickstarter Camp Grizzly this was the exact scenario, & even though I had avoided Kickstarter for all the reasons outlined by the OP, I jumped on this one because I believed in it & wanted it to succeed, & am thrilled I did.

So, yeah, I agree with to OP's sentiment, except in cases exactly as you mention.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kirk K

New Kensington
Pennsylvania
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm so glad someone's talking about this. Kickstarter has all but killed BGG for me. I used to be on this site two, three times a day, but now I might stop by once a month. I have no interest in funding KS projects, and I only want to read about games that produced by actual game companies w/o KS funding (or KS games that have been produced and are available to the public). While browsing BBG recently, it seems like every game I click on is "send us money and we'll probably send you a game in a year".

I really wish BBG would create a "Kickstarter Free Zone" where I could find the games I want without having to wade through all the junk.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Knepper
United States
Huntsville
Alabama
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
clydeiii wrote:
thenobleknave wrote:
I think Kickstarter is fantastic for brand new publishers to get off the ground. Once a company is established, turning to KickStarter rather than reinvesting their revenue only crowds out new guys and undermines the entire concept of KS.

Rock on PHG. Looking forward to this one.
#truthbomb

Using Kickstarter in the manner described by the OP is so amazingly lame. I really hope boardgame publishers wise up in 2015. #spiritofkickstarter


I have been told by one game designer, well acquainted with Kickstarter, that boardgames account for 45% of Kickstarter's income. I cannot substantiate that claim, but have absolutely no reason to doubt the game designer.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Cody
United States
Columbus
OH
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Man I wish Marvel Dice Masters would have been kickstarted maybe then it would get some hype and maybe get off the ground.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Drickman
United States
Ukiah
CA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kickstarter games often do have have the highest peaks of attention, but they usually don't sustain that and often have much lower hype and attention long term.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Colby Dauch
United States
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stevelabny wrote:


And soon - we know we said pre-orders would get the game first, but we have to sell it at GenCon!


You are misinformed on this one. We have never, and will never, sell copies of a game at a convention while people have copies on pre-order that we haven't yet shipped to them.

The plan is to ship out to pre-orders and then take the rest to GenCon. If it doesn't get here in time to ship it out to pre-orders we won't be selling it at GenCon.
30 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moose Detective
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
Than Sense
badge
Is it a moose that became a detective ? Or a detective who searches for moose?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
screamingtruth wrote:
stevelabny wrote:


And soon - we know we said pre-orders would get the game first, but we have to sell it at GenCon!


You are misinformed on this one. We have never, and will never, sell copies of a game at a convention while people have copies on pre-order that we haven't yet shipped to them.

The plan is to ship out to pre-orders and then take the rest to GenCon. If it doesn't get here in time to ship it out to pre-orders we won't be selling it at GenCon.


Well, that's good to hear. Now I'll feel bad when I feed you to the zombies to lower team morale. (Edit: I've even gone back and edited my original snarky prediction to quote you in case people don't scroll all the way down.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kris Verbeeck
Belgium
Mol
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
i am watching a great explanation now and I was thinking is this still on kickstarter... great to know i won't be missing out on kickstarter exclusives. i hope it will be available in Essen (english version)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.