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Quote:

Skill Check Abilities
After the “Shuffle and Divide Cards” step of resolving a skill
check (see “Skill Checks” on page 16 of the base game’s rule
book), the current player identifies cards with the skill check
ability icon. If there are any, the current player resolves each
card with a skill check ability icon in the order of his choosing.
He does not resolve the same skill check ability more than
once, even if more than one instance of that ability was played
into the skill check.


Reading literally, after the skillcards are shuffled and divided then resolving the skill check abilities should be the next thing that immediately happens.

The thing is, in a PBF game i'm running an Install Upgrades card was in the check, and the check actually failed by 1 point.
One player played a Declare-Emergency card to allow the check to pass, and I allowed this to resolve first before I did the skill check abilities.

Now in most instances it wont matter which way round this happens, but for install upgrades, whether the current player receives 1 or 2 engineering cards depends on whether the check passed or failed.

I resolved that the check passed, and dealt the player 2 engineering cards, but should I have resolved it to just give 1 card?
At that point, the check had apparently failed.

Too late to go back on it now, 2 engineering cards already dealt, but I just wanted to check if I should have done it the other way around.



 
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Carl Bussema
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Install upgrades, like Iron will, is resolved when all the other abilities are, in current player's choice of order, but sets up a delayed trigger. Once IU resolves, you don't deal out the cards yet, because you don't know if the check has passed or failed. You could have a quick thinking still to resolve that will change the outcome (side note: picking up IU with QT does not stop IU if IU has already resolved). So you continue to the end of the check, determine if you pass or fail (or fail barely, in the case of Iron Will), and deal out cards appropriately.

Tl;dr: you played it correctly.
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Robert Stewart
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Install Upgrades, Establish Network, Iron Will and All Hands On Deck all have effects that don't actually do anything at the time skill check abilities are applied. You lock in that they're applying while resolving skill check abilities, even if something then removes the card, or they're only added to the check as the result of another skill check ability resolving.

At the time skill check abilities are applied, the check has neither passed nor failed, so, while you as a player may be able to guess what will happen, the game can only reliably tell how many cards should be drawn for Install Upgrades once the final totals are in and the check has actually passed or failed.
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InfoCynic wrote:
Install upgrades, like Iron will, is resolved when all the other abilities are, in current player's choice of order, but sets up a delayed trigger. Once IU resolves, you don't deal out the cards yet, because you don't know if the check has passed or failed. You could have a quick thinking still to resolve that will change the outcome (side note: picking up IU with QT does not stop IU if IU has already resolved). So you continue to the end of the check, determine if you pass or fail (or fail barely, in the case of Iron Will), and deal out cards appropriately.

Tl;dr: you played it correctly.


So if you partial pass, or fail but trigger Iron Will, no blue cards from IU?

Iron Will
Quote:
Skill Check: If total strength is within 4 of the difficulty do not trigger the fail effect. If total strength in this skill check is 0 or less, lose 1 morale


Install Upgrades
Quote:
Skill Check: If this skill check passes, the current player draws 2 Engineering Cards. If it fails, he draws 1 Engineering Card.




Also, can a player choose to resolve the Skill Check of a 3-Treachery skill first and then remove it with Quick Thinking?

Or resolve the skill check of Exploit A Weakness, then discard it with Red Tape so the strength won't matter?
 
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With Iron Will the check still Fails (unless partial result), but you don't trigger the fail effect. So IU gives you 1 card.
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Mindy G
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ackmondual wrote:
Also, can a player choose to resolve the Skill Check of a 3-Treachery skill first and then remove it with Quick Thinking?


I am fairly certain there is an example in the Rule book where something is resolved and then removed.
 
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Carl Bussema
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UFAQ anyway. We asked about removing All Hands on Deck, I think. Basically, resolved is resolved is resolved, you can't "unresolve" something by stealing it with QT, even if resolved was creating a delayed trigger.
 
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InfoCynic wrote:
UFAQ anyway. We asked about removing All Hands on Deck, I think. Basically, resolved is resolved is resolved, you can't "unresolve" something by stealing it with QT, even if resolved was creating a delayed trigger.


So in those cases, resolving means performing the text on the Skill Check part, THEN adding in the strength? So could you then remove the card with QT after you do those? Red Tape does state you have to discard the 5s and 6s before totaling strength. I missed that initially.
 
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I just read this bit in the rulebook. Current player chooses the order you resolve things in, so if there's a quick thinking in play, they can be smart and remove an unresolved treachery card.

Quote:


Skill Check Ability Clarifications
When the current player resolves the skill check ability on
a “Dogfight” or “Quick Thinking” Skill Card, he may have the
opportunity to remove a card from the skill check. If he
removes a card with a skill check ability that has already been
resolved
, the ability is unaffected.
Example: The current player resolves the “All Hands on Deck”
Card, which reads, “For each Skill Card in this check with a
strength of ‘0,’ add 1 to the check’s total strength.” He then
resolves the “Quick Thinking” Card, which allows him to choose 1
card with a strength of 3 or less to remove from the check and
add to his hand. He chooses the “All Hands on Deck” Card. Even
though the card has been removed, each remaining Skill Card
with a strength of “0,” still adds 1 to the check’s total strength.
If the current player removes a Skill Card before its skill check
ability is resolved, he does not resolve that ability

-Daybreak rulebook, page 10
 
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Is that news to you? People do that all the time. That's kinda the point of Quick Thinking.
 
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Yeah, no one is saying you can't pull out an unresolved skill check effect; the point in fact is to pull out one that HAS resolved, potentially to use it again, e.g., you'd really like that treachery 3 to come back during the next check, you filthy toaster. Doing this, as noted by the rules and the UFAQ, does not stop the already resolved effect [even a delayed effect like AHoD / Iron Will / Upgrades].
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oriecat wrote:
Is that news to you? People do that all the time. That's kinda the point of Quick Thinking.
I was thinking if it was possible for the current player to resolve the text on A Better Machine and Personal vices, then use QT to draw it into your hand so you got to do the effect, but NOT the strength
 
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ackmondual wrote:
So in those cases, resolving means performing the text on the Skill Check part, THEN adding in the strength? So could you then remove the card with QT after you do those? Red Tape does state you have to discard the 5s and 6s before totaling strength. I missed that initially.


Red tape is a naughty child. It's written like you should do it now, and then there's this parenthetical clause that makes it seem like it should set up a delayed trigger to be resolved later. If it DID set up a delayed trigger, it would nuke things pulled by Trust Instincts when RT is resolved before TI. However, we have explicitly confirmed this is not the case; when RT is resolved first, any 5/6 pulled by TI will stay in the check (UFAQ, from Tim to me). Thus, RT does not set up a delayed trigger, but is executed immediately when resolved. If you execute a RT and pick it up with QT, nothing changes -- the 5 and 6 cards are still dead. Even if more cards were being added to the check, for instance, TI was in the check too, we already know that once RT resolves, it has no further impact on the check, so resolving RT - QT - TI is the same as RT - TI - QT (and the latter is always preferable, as you have more information).
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