Jonathan "Spartan Spawn, Sworn, Raised for Warring!"
"By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe."
Curious about the comparison if there is any? I know the scales are different but am curious if there is a reason to have both in my collection?
I do enjoy WaW and I think it might be the more easily accesible of the 2 but I also enjoyed the one game of Panzer Ive played (assuming MBT is similar). Wondering if this series might end up replacing WaW for me.
So anyone played both? Any thoughts?
- Last edited Wed Jul 2, 2014 4:20 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
- Posted Wed Jul 2, 2014 4:17 pm
If you've played Panzer, you're half way there. The rules for MBT are very similar with a little extra for modern weapon systems. Played the old MBT last week and have the new one on order from GMT. Also played a WaW tournament in February and will likely keep both.
As you point out, the scale is different, with MBT focused on the individual AFV and/or squad. This gives MBT meaningful choices for unit facing with varied hit locations and armor thickness profiles for aspect. WaW is more simplified and abstracted as well as focusing on larger unit formations.
Time is another factor. The typical WaW scenario is playable in very short order so that you can play 2-3 in a six hour session. MBT may consume that amount of time for a single game.
Order of operations is where this game really stands apart. There is no random chit pull in which you can lose turns or get double activations as with WaW. Moreover, you must place order tokens with each unit (including the decision to use ATGM's) so that your decision to move or fire is locked in before you see what you opponent is doing. With 60 degree firing arcs and turret rotation rules, this is even more granular.
One thing I most admire about MBT and Panzer is that the game systems seem to reward intuitive play. Without knowing the rules well, you can make decisions about placement, maneuver and terrain that are rewarded. In WaW, decisions are often made in observation of the chit pull system which can feel "gamey".
I'm not ready to sell my WaW stuff as it fills a nice light short war game window. However, given the time, MBT will be my first choice to set up and play.
NWS Wargaming Store
LM is pretty much spot on, I am a fan of Jim Days work with MBT/IDF and own several copies as I study and research the application of Cold War weapons in my spare time.
MBT is more realistic but also more sophisticated as it does cover doctrine, ammunition counts (scaled for time slice), facing, movement, spotting/detection/optics, weapon mechanics, sequence of combat orders, etc..
MBT has several levels of rules so you do not have to use the "advanced" rules right away. Even though the system is sophisticated it follows a rhythm and system of logic and simulation that few true wargames ever seem to really grasp IMHO. If you know something about modern land combat everything seems to fit in place with an easy to follow and flow of turn sequence, orders, and combat resolution. Point being, its not abstracted to the point of not making sense, the system does not leave you guessing or questioning the logic of the design, and does not feel disjointed. Once you get the basics down the rest is easy to pick up on even though the rules can look overwhelming at first. This is one of those games where when you have played it a few times and you do not have to run the manual every few minutes to figure out what is going on.
MBT/IDF are two of my all time favorite wargames that I will never part with. I am quite interested to see the updated versions when they get released.
I tried the WaW series, which is very popular with a lot of gamers, but I could not get into it nearly as much as the MBT/IDF series - however, I am also a strong stickler for accuracy and reasonable detail which may not suit the more casual wargamer.
- Last edited Wed Jul 2, 2014 5:43 pm (Total Number of Edits: 3)
- Posted Wed Jul 2, 2014 5:40 pm
a thousand words are better
Different scales and design objectives. However:
World at War feels a bit gamier and also more fantastical. Fun game though. Easy to pick up and gives some highly cinematic Cold War action.
That said, I really like the Panzer/MBT line. The basic game is probably about as easy to pick up and play as World at War while there is a ton of meaty and well-implemented detail in the advanced and optional rules. Lots of research reflected in the data cards to keep the gear-heads happy too.