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Subject: Revealing Mission cards rss

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Andrew Mellors
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Apparently for the past year my group has been playing the game "wrong"

We only reveal the mission cards up to the number of Fails needed & then we stop keeping the rest hidden.

After finding out this was not the RAW, we still continue to play it this way.

What are your guy's thoughts on this?

NOTE: I tried to search for a thread about this already, but couldn't find one.

 
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Ken Dilloo
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Less info = easier for traders, I suppose.
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Agent J
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amellors wrote:
Apparently for the past year my group has been playing the game "wrong"

We only reveal the mission cards up to the number of Fails needed & then we stop keeping the rest hidden.

After finding out this was not the RAW, we still continue to play it this way.

What are your guy's thoughts on this?

NOTE: I tried to search for a thread about this already, but couldn't find one.


Well, I like that spies have the possibility of messing up, even though in practice you almost never see a double-fail anyway. It doesn't really matter, but you are letting your spies off easy. And I think if you started playing RAW, you will get a sort of shakiness on double-spy missions for a short period of time until they figure out how to coordinate. It'd be fun to shake things up.
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Pasi Ojala
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You remove any risk for spies for multiple-spy missions, they can just submit fail cards without thought. It makes the game easier for spies.

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George Leach
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This would hugely advantage the Spies. If you find the spies don't win often then keep it, but experienced players find that spies are at a slight disadvantage (beginners go through a process of seesawing between the two usually) so this would unbalance the game further.
Multiple fails is the most conrete of the Resistance's tools for figuring out the location of Spies.
 
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Stephen Eckman
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Really experienced players prevent the unnecessary double fail through convention. For instance: the first spy to the left of the leader fails the mission.
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Agent J
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steckman wrote:
Really experienced players prevent the unnecessary double fail through convention. For instance: the first spy to the left of the leader fails the mission.

Or the first spy to the right of the leader fails the mission.

Or the leader fails the mission.

Or the first spy handed a card fails the mission.

Etc.

So you eventually have such a large list of conventions that it once again could be anyone.
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Clyde W
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The game is way more fun when you reveal all the cards.
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Agent J
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clydeiii wrote:
The game is way more fun when you reveal all the cards.

Well, when you reveal your role cards too it gets pretty broken.
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steckman wrote:
Really experienced players prevent the unnecessary double fail through convention. For instance: the first spy to the left of the leader fails the mission.

I disagree. This requires a convention to be set up, that's well known, which in most groups you'll find won't happen, especially because you need to know exactly what the specific convention in use is.

I had a situation in a game recently where a mission with two spies on passed, because the mission leader (a spy) put me (a spy) on. I assumed that as the leader, he was the one making the choices so I'd leave failing to him. He assumed that, as the leader putting other spies on, not knowing how they'd behave means he should play the pass. So we both assumed the other would make the choice on failing and we both passed without any thought.
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Madeline B
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My group once discussed using this in combination with having none of the spies look up, so nobody has any information. Does this seem balanced? We might not actually get back to this variant, but it seemed a nice counterweight.
 
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Agent J
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madelineb wrote:
My group once discussed using this in combination with having none of the spies look up, so nobody has any information. Does this seem balanced? We might not actually get back to this variant, but it seemed a nice counterweight.

That sounds horribly terrible. What was the point of making the spies not know each other?
 
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Madeline B
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Well, if you prefer the basic game to including Merlin and stuff, this could go even farther down the road of removing information. Makes the spies have to puzzle stuff out. We've never played with totally blind spies, though.
 
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John
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Jythier wrote:
madelineb wrote:
My group once discussed using this in combination with having none of the spies look up, so nobody has any information. Does this seem balanced? We might not actually get back to this variant, but it seemed a nice counterweight.

That sounds horribly terrible. What was the point of making the spies not know each other? :P

That's in the rules as an official variant. I've never tried it and not sure it'd be as much fun as normal.

On the original subject - I'd always want to play with all the mission cards being revealed (and I don't like the idea of spy conventions set before the game). The game seems reasonably well balanced as designed & without spy conventions (though recently with plot cards & lower player count the good guys have been winning more often than not).
 
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Chad Miller
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steckman wrote:
Really experienced players prevent the unnecessary double fail through convention. For instance: the first spy to the left of the leader fails the mission.

Unless they're playing with The Plot Thickens and all such conventions are suboptimal.
 
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Andrew Mellors
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We have played a little over 20 games (not too too many) with various people but almost always with the core group of 3 or 4.

And it's been roughly 40% wins to resistance (with the rest going to the Spies)

But that being said our spies definitely haven't come up with any sort of Conventions in the group.

We can try a few games with the "Show All" rule & see how we like it.

Thanks!
 
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Clyde W
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Consider also Avalon and One Night Ultimate Werewolf!
 
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Agent J
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clydeiii wrote:
Consider also Avalon and One Night Ultimate Werewolf!

If you want to be bored.
 
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Clyde W
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Huh? No way. Both are more exciting.
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Agent J
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clydeiii wrote:
Huh? No way. Both are more exciting.

Avalon is dumb.

ONUWW is a nice 5 minute distraction.
 
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Andrew Mellors
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We actually have the Avalon set (which we just play normal Resistance with it) as *I* have been resistant to add Merlin in because all Merlin/Assassin does is shift the balance a little towards the spies. (Which the partial revealing was already doing)

One night Ultimate Werewolf I've described as such:
1) Deal out role cards
2) Look at dealt card
3) Re-Shuffle dealt role cards & re-deal (But DON'T Look!)
4) Everyone reveals at once & is surprised.

That doesn't seem fun to me.

 
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Agent J
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amellors wrote:
We actually have the Avalon set (which we just play normal Resistance with it) as *I* have been resistant to add Merlin in because all Merlin/Assassin does is shift the balance a little towards the spies. (Which the partial revealing was already doing)

One night Ultimate Werewolf I've described as such:
1) Deal out role cards
2) Look at dealt card
3) Re-Shuffle dealt role cards & re-deal (But DON'T Look!)
4) Everyone reveals at once & is surprised.

That doesn't seem fun to me.


I have only once been surprised by a reveal and I've played 4 or 5 times now.
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Tables
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amellors wrote:
We actually have the Avalon set (which we just play normal Resistance with it) as *I* have been resistant to add Merlin in because all Merlin/Assassin does is shift the balance a little towards the spies. (Which the partial revealing was already doing)

One night Ultimate Werewolf I've described as such:
1) Deal out role cards
2) Look at dealt card
3) Re-Shuffle dealt role cards & re-deal (But DON'T Look!)
4) Everyone reveals at once & is surprised.

That doesn't seem fun to me.


Whoever described the game like that to you either hasn't played or didn't understand the game, or possibly played an extremely random setup and then complained it was too random (which is, uh, interesting). It's an individual deduction game, which is primarily about working out first if your role has changed and secondly who you should kill to win. I've only been surprised by what I flipped once out of about a dozen games, every other time I either knew or was fairly confident in what my role was.
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Andrew Mellors
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I describe it like that because the couple of games I have played recently of it. I had 0 knowledge of anything (Or felt like I did)

I couldn't trust that I was who I thought I was.
I also couldn't trust anything I saw when I "woke up"

Both of those things (to me) make it feel VERY random, and thus is very off putting.
 
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Agent J
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There's only a couple switches... and they're all known to someone.
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