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Subject: "Bad" 2pe Opening Hands (Base Game) - Scenario #1 (Seed 2) rss

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Serge
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This is a series of threads to test your skills at the most important part of the game: the beginning. Every thing snowballs from there.

If participating, post your first response blind (before reading any responses). Hide your whole post behind spoiler tags [.o] [./o]. There are 2 decision points (play each blind): Opening Hand keep 4, then Explore I/I keep 2 seeing opponent phases.

Even if not participating, post questions and comments freely.

[I'm using 0.8.1m, but AFAICT the seeds are the same in every version. You can play the game out yourself for fun.]

Scenario #1

Villain:


Hero:



Turn 1
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Villain: I+1/II

Hero: I/I



---------------- ----------------
#1 - #2 - #3
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Re: Bad 2pe Opening Hands - Scenario 1 (Seed 2)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Disclaimer: this isn't fully blind, as i didn't realize i should write up my thoughts before finishing the original post if i want to participate. I saw most of the I/I before thinking about the opening hand play. I'll try to forget them (i didn't see Trade League).

My first thought is that I+1/II Research Labs with a terrible hand is probably more than viable, and i dismissed it far too quickly in the thread that inspired this series. Not that i would keep it here, though.

Merchant Guild + Deficit Spending is a combo, but it's far better in multiplayer, and it's not super viable from opening hand unless you've got a cheap windfall and Spice World or something. Still, it's better than a lot of the chaff here.

LABF is an auto-keep in case we get good military, which will happen probably half the time here (with my playstyle anyway).

DAL is an auto-discard since it can't be played on turn 1 if we whiff on I/I and opponent calls III. Whereas DAC can. I don't like dumping my hand for DAC, but that scenario happens occasionally, you just have to suck it up.

This hand isn't terrible enough for Research Labs to come into the equation the way i said it can above. That lets us keep the Trade strategy combo in hand in case the stars align.

Opening hand keep:


Given our opponent called II, i'm generally going to keep and play either Colony Ship or Mining Robots here. Radioactive World is likely kept either way.

Galactic Renaissance, Trade League, Mining Conglomerate, Imperium Armaments World are all auto-discards (i can elaborate on any of them if asked). Rebel Underground really hurts to discard, but given our opponent called a build phase, it's time to adjust to the reality of what has been called and choose a direction. Clearly military is still too far from coming online.

While the Colony Ship + Merchant Guild would allow ~ III/III empty our hand for both worlds next turn, that's a bit much and we're still another turn from trading for 5. It seems pretty clear that we have to leech Mining Robots, and III/$ Radioactive World next turn.

I/I keep:

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Federico
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Re: Bad 2pe Opening Hands - Scenario 1 (Seed 2)
Nice idea!

Are we playing with TGS?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Keep 4
I'd definitely keep LABF and Research Labs seems decent too, for the I and (eventually) V powers.
I don't see how I would settle Merchant World, so I'd discard it, together with Deficit Spending, which is no good at the beginning of the game.

So: keep LABF, RL, DAC, DAL; discard MW and DS

Turn 1
Galactic Renaissance and Trade League don't seem to fit with the Military / Alien cards we have. Also, since the villain's developing and Research Labs costs a lot, it might be preferable to keep a development.
I'm torn between keeping Mining Robots + Radioactive World or Radioactive World + Rebel Underground.
Rebel Underground is not playable right now, but with an I+5 next turn I should be able to get one of the +military developments. DAC and DAL are already 2 windfalls (altough costly ones) so Radioactive World might be a bit redundant.

I think I'll pass this turn's development as I don't have anything I want to play. Keep Radioactive World + Rebel Underground. Then next turn I+5 + $, keep a +military development (or small windfall, like Former Penal Colony), then settle Former Penal Colony or, otherwise, Radioactive World and trade its good. Not sure it's a good plan, but it seems viable, at least.
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Re: "Bad" 2pe Opening Hands - Scenario 1 (Seed 2)
Fede__ wrote:
Are we playing with TGS?

These are base game only (hence the forum [edit: apparently forum doesn't indicate since we put them all in base]), as every indication i've seen from the original thread is that he's talking about the base game. We can do TGS ones (any set really), and anyone can post them. I'm just getting the ball rolling. All that's really needed is to post two screenshots of any bad game: opening hand, and then I/I.
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Tom Lehmann
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
First part blind:

Discard Merchant World, Deficit Spending -- I have good, but expensive and hard to place cards whose goods trade for lots of $ (if I can get them down). Don't need and can't afford card drains at this point.

Comment: I would also consider E+1, Develop here (instead of E+5/E+1) since I have some good cards and am interested in A) finding +4 Military and developing it (which will likely take 2 developments) and B) willing to build Research Labs for early cash, better explores, and to possibly synergize with one of the 3 alien cards.

Second part blind:

3 possibilities:

* Take Colony Ship, Imperium Armaments World, spend the 2 non-military alien worlds to leech the dev and prepare to E+5/E+1 again next turn, leeching an expected Settle with IAW to boost my Military and eventually give me some goods production. If I find a decent defense 1 or 2 Military windfall world on my round 2 explore, I can always Settle it instead and save the Colony Ship for a nicer world later.

* Take any two cards (say, Rebel Underground, IAW), ignore the dev leech, and call Settle-Trade with Deserted Alien Colony next turn (spending everything if no opponent Explore and probably keeping Lost Alien Battle Fleet if an Explore occurs that doesn't yield a cheap Military windfall).

* Take Mining Conglomerate and Radioactive World, spend RL and the two non-military alien worlds to place Mining Conglomerate. Next turn, call E+1/$ to, hopefully, leech a Settle of Radioactive World for 4 cards and set up a possible turn 3 Produce call to get another good and, hopefully, 2 cards.

I'd probably pick the first of these.

Under the alternative round 1 E+1/Dev line noted above, keep LABF and spend 3 of 4 cards to place Research Labs. Call E+5/E+1 next turn.
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Federico
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entranced wrote:
Fede__ wrote:
Are we playing with TGS?

These are base game only (hence the forum [edit: apparently forum doesn't indicate since we put them all in base]), as every indication i've seen from the original thread is that he's talking about the base game. We can do TGS ones (any set really), and anyone can post them. I'm just getting the ball rolling. All that's really needed is to post two screenshots of any bad game: opening hand, and then I/I.

Sorry, Serge, my mistake: for some reason at the beginning I thought I saw Separatist Colony and forgot to edit the beginning of my post when I came to my senses and noticed it was Epsilon Eridani.
 
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Eric Brosius
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'll get rid of Merchant World and Deficit Spending.

Then, after the I,I, I keep Colony Ship and Imperium Armaments World.


 
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Andrew
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Starting hand...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Keep Merchant World, Deserted Alien Colony, Lost Alien Battle Fleet, and Research Labs! The Villain will need to settle to gain cardflow, so Explore+1 will allow you to play Deserted Alien Colony if he does. If he develops instead, Research Labs is a possible play...


Turn 1...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Either Radioactive World and Mining Robots or Imperium Armaments World and Colony Ship. The first telegraphs more and is less flexible, and is a bit more boring so I'd probably gamble on the second and Explore again next turn.
 
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Erwin Lau
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It is nice. Let me try...

Spoiler (click to reveal)

Opening Hand
Ditch "Merchant World" and "Research Labs"

Explore
Keep "Radioactive World" and "Mining Robots"

 
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Chris
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
discard the deserted alien library (essentially a duplicate of deserted alien colony, so adds no value. Discard merchant world - if we have an early settle opportunity with lots of cards, we will build alien colony in preference to merchant world
 
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John
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
Deserted Alien Colony, Lost Alien Battle Fleet, Deserted Alien Libary, Deficit Spending

Keep Rebel Underground & Imperium Armaments World (maybe call I+1/III next round & hope)

Edit - doh, Colony Ship probably makes more sense:
Tom Lehmann wrote:

* Take Colony Ship, Imperium Armaments World, spend the 2 non-military alien worlds to leech the dev and prepare to E+5/E+1 again next turn, leeching an expected Settle with IAW to boost my Military and eventually give me some goods production. If I find a decent defense 1 or 2 Military windfall world on my round 2 explore, I can always Settle it instead and save the Colony Ship for a nicer world later.

I was seriously considering this too as getting 6 new cards for the start of round 3 would be nice (though it'd just be typical to pick up ATI, Rosetta Stone World, Space Marines in the trade):
Tom Lehmann wrote:

* Take any two cards (say, Rebel Underground, IAW), ignore the dev leech, and call Settle-Trade with Deserted Alien Colony next turn (spending everything if no opponent Explore and probably keeping Lost Alien Battle Fleet if an Explore occurs that doesn't yield a cheap Military windfall).

 
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Looks like fun!

I had trouble understanding "then Explore keep 2 seeing opponent phases." Does that mean that you want us to call I+1 (and something else)? I would call it anyhow, so I'll play assuming that's what you mean.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The two civilian alien worlds are not useful this early in the game, so I discard both. Although they are occasionally good point scorers, playing them would slow us down too much.

Initial plan: play Research Labs first turn to get the advantage in the Explore phase.

Initial call: I+1/II.

Explore phase: Although Mining Conglomerate is amazing in the base game, we don't have any other cards to set up that engine. And while Galactic Renaissance is usually pretty bad, Research Labs makes it much better. We almost have enough power to play Rebel Underground, so I'll toss MC and keep the other two.

Dev phase: Play Research Labs, keeping the two cards I picked up in Explore.


Edit: result
Spoiler (click to reveal)
loss, 34-44
(it was a pretty brutal game: at one point, with only 4 worlds in hand, and expecting pressure on develop, I explored for 8 and got: all worlds...)
 
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Rainstar wrote:
I had trouble understanding "then Explore keep 2 seeing opponent phases." Does that mean that you want us to call I+1 (and something else)? I would call it anyhow, so I'll play assuming that's what you mean.


Ack! It looks like you meant that we have to choose I/I?
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
Okay, try again with a call of I/I.

Starting hand is the same (toss the two civilian alien windfalls).

This explore hand is an example of why I don't like I/I, even with a weak starting hand. There is no guarantee with 8 cards that it'll get any better, and we had enough potential already (with Research Labs).

Choosing two from this eight is hard. Mining Conglomerate is very strong, but there is no clear combo of two cards that include it, since if I took Radioactive World, I couldn't guarantee being able to pull off III/$ next turn. Further, the presence of MC actually weakens the other choices that include brown worlds or Mining Robots, since if we discard MC, we are unlikely to see the other copy soon.

I'd like to take advantage of my opponent's II call, so Colony Ship seems like a good option. It is a clear 1 card discount on Merchant World or Imperium Armaments World. IAW is a bit slow (since we'd have to call V), so I'll take my chances on Merchant World. I'll keep Radioactive World as a backup windfall to trade with.

Choices: Colony Ship, Radioactive World.

Dev Phase: play Colony Ship, keeping MW, RW, and LABF.

Next turn: I+5/III (hope to explore into a military windfall), planning for III/$ on the next turn.


Edit: result
Spoiler (click to reveal)
loss, 24-26
 
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How do I load a specific seed in the Keldon client? I don't see an option to enter the seed anywhere in it.
 
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tvhees wrote:
How do I load a specific seed in the Keldon client? I don't see an option to enter the seed anywhere in it.

You need to use borgemik's UI patch, then you can specify a seed when you create new games.
 
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