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Subject: Trading after the when trading is over? rss

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jack elfrink
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An odd situation came up recently in a game and I am curious as to other peoples opinions.

It was a game with new players and one of them was wanting a trade with me but it was slightly unequal. As is usual, I offer up a "one now, and a bean of your choose later" futures-market trade. They came back with a counter offer of they wanted one of my beans now, but then the 'draw three at the end of your turn' that I got, they would take all three of those beans instead.

This sounded highly unstrategic to me so I attempted to explain to them that it would be a horrid idea. But they pushed for it and I agreed. I end my trade phase, everyone plants, and I draw three new cards putting them on the bottom of my stack and am all ready to trade those three cards as soon as the new player starts his trading phase. But he balks. He said he wants those three cards instantly.

Now I have done plenty of trades that take effect at times other than during trading. You cant buy a third been field before I do. If we both end the game in a tie for first, I will let you be declared the winner. I will give you a been free on the condition you don't harvest that type until you max it out. I will agree to always take the 'may plan your second card' option at the start of my turn next round. But somehow, this just felt wrong. Something didn't sit right with the connect of "Ok, everyone trade. Now trading is done so plant. Ok, now we trade again."

What we eventually decided was to wait it out. I just agreed to not trade those particular three cards until it got to his turn and then when it did get to his turn I hand them over instantly no questions asked. So in practice it wound up the same. But I am wondering if I was too strict with the rules.

(Side note: The three cards I drew and gave to him did not match anything he had in his fields so he had to harvest everything he had to make room. I still dont know what his motivation for the trade was but he insisted it was a good idea.)
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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You can only trade during the trading phase. After you draw your three cards is not a time you can trade.
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Stephen Eckman
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Oviedo
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I don't think you were too strict with the rules. If you could continue to trade beans after drawing new cards in step 4, then you are essentially playing a different game ... and everyone would have had to agree to that from the beginning.
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David Jones
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I think I have to side with you on this for an essentially similar reason. The explanation we always invoke when there is a rules question is that "You can only trade with the active player." This effectively clarifies problems when players try to trade across the table when it isn't their turn and/or explains why triangle trading doesn't work (unless you can somehow mimic the trade over two different turns. That one sentence clarifies about 90% of any rules questions that come up for us.

For your specific situation, the rules explicitly state "After drawing cards, the active player ends his turn." This means that once you have put those cards in your hand you are no longer active. You cannot give him those cards until one of you then becomes the active player.


Completely aside, I am curious to know if he really understood the consequences of that deal. Being forced to plant three random beans can't be good, especially if you are enforcing the rule that you can't harvest singletons. Maybe if you knew you were going to harvest all of your fields at the start of your turn, it would give you some free starters for those fields (and you still have the ability to cycle out whatever you don't want). But still, this is a somewhat uncommon situation. Probably more effective is that he took three cards away from you which limited your trading power for a turn. Useful if said player is in the lead, but again you're talking about a narrowly defined situation.
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J. Riddell
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You were not too strict with the rules at all. The game is played in phases and the trading phase is explicitly explained in the rules. You can't negotiate away the rules of the game.

New players should know the danger of promises in the game. Future promises are not binding. You've explored some interesting promises, but none of them broke the rules (except perhaps the one where you changed the winning condition which I might have an issue with, but I won't get into that right now).

There are a few times where I will reverse a move for new players if they didn't understand the ramifications of what they were doing (even after I've explained it to them).

I'm not sure if it would have been appropriate in this situation to offer to reverse the trade, but that would be about all I'd consider beyond what you did (i.e., agree to keep the cards until that player's trading phase). In future plays, however, the players should understand that this would not be binding.
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J Fields
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This is one of my favorite games. I would agree that you can trade with almost any 'condition' in place, however the taking of your three beans at the end of your turn could only happen once he, or you for that matter, were the active player again.

I was also interested in the other 'conditions' other folks have come up with. This is really my favorite part of Bohnanza. I've agreed to trade if another player harvests all their other fields. Or had another player buy me a third bean field. The more creative, the better.

Other thoughts (sneaky or otherwise)?
 
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Bryan Doughty
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I feel buying another player a third bean field is outside the scope of the game, but if everyone you play with is cool with it, then enjoy.

There is a group I’ve played with, with which we would invariably wind up trading in future "favors". Negotiations would have to be entered into over the relative value between small, medium and big favors for the purpose of exchange rates. We would sometimes even trade the favors that one opponent owed us to another player. It got pretty crazy sometimes.

I recall making a trade offer based on the active player not making a particular trade with a third player.
 
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