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Subject: [Theorycrafting] Biomodernism rss

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Michael Redston
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Identity:
Custom Biotics: Engineered for Success (Creation and Control)

Total Cards: (49)

Agenda: (11)
3x Efficiency Committee (Creation and Control)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
2x False Lead (A Study in Static)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)

Asset: (3)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) ■

ICE: (12)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
3x Fenris (True Colors)
3x Grim (Opening Moves)
3x Gyri Labyrinth (Double Time)

Operation: (23)
2x Scorched Earth (Core) ■■■■
2x SEA Source (Core) ■■
3x Power Shutdown (Mala Tempora) ■■
3x Accelerated Diagnostics (Mala Tempora)
2x Archived Memories (Core)
3x Blue Level Clearance (Fear and Loathing)
3x Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static)
3x Hedge Fund (Core)
1x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)
1x Anonymous Tip (Core) ■

Upgrade: (0)

Total Agenda Points: 20

Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 31
Jinteki: 0
NBN: 8
The Weyland Consortium: 14

Biomodernism
The idea is to initiate a Scorch Shutdown combo just like you do in Weyland. The advantage of HB is that if you can score an Efficiency Committee you can take the combo to a whole new level. Also, if you catch the runner unaware with Gyri Labyrinth it'll be that much easier to bag them. Finally, why Grim? because people won't expect that in HB. They'd feel comfortable facecheking with a Mimic knowing that if it's Rototurret they'll break it easily and if it's Ichi they could click it.

P.S. NAPD is not for scoring, it's for an easier tagging when the runner steals it. This deck really isn't equipped to win by scoring anyhow.
 
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Re: [Theorycrafting] Biotic Modernism
kroen wrote:
This deck really isn't equipped to win by scoring anyhow.


If by "modernism" you mean to refer to Weyland Supermodernism, then you should pick a different name. The main idea of Supermodernism is to threaten every win condition in the game, including winning by scoring.
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Grish Noren
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Re: [Theorycrafting] Biotic Modernism
This looks like the worst deck to put eli & grim in. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it plays fine, but you're trying to hate on program destruction without any ETRs to actually take advantage of it for a scoring window.
 
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Captain Frisk
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Re: [Theorycrafting] Biotic Modernism
DrTall wrote:
kroen wrote:
This deck really isn't equipped to win by scoring anyhow.


If by "modernism" you mean to refer to Weyland Supermodernism, then you should pick a different name. The main idea of Supermodernism is to threaten every win condition in the game, including winning by scoring.


How dare you question Kroen's naming skills?

kroen wrote:

I'm so awesome at coming up with names for decks, though less awesome when it comes to making them. Seriously. If you have a unique deck, PM me the list and I'll name it for you.


On topic:

Random deck thoughts:

- You're missing the "biotic labor" part of wombo combo.
- You also don't have enough ice to actually score your efficiency committee.
- Grim is a nice surprise complement to Ichi 1.0, but in HB you should almost never go triple Grim before you have at least 2 ichi's
- Playing custom biotics makes people automatically assume midseason and / or scorch, so they are going to be much more careful about running if they are vulnerable to the combo.
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Michael Redston
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You're right, the list does look lackluster. What improvements would you suggest?
 
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Alejandro G.
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kroen wrote:
You're right, the list does look lackluster. What improvements would you suggest?


That you scrap the deck and run Cerebral Imaging instead.

Bioroids on R&D and HQ. Score out only with Biotic Labor, Reclamation order your Biotics back. You can draw up for your Sea Source/Scorch combo with Blue Level and Green Level Clearance.
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Michael Redston
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So you're saying I should just switch to Scorched Imaging. Thanks, super helpful.
 
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kroen wrote:
So you're saying I should just switch to Scorched Imaging. Thanks, super helpful.


kroen wrote:
Biomodernism
The idea is to initiate a Scorch Shutdown combo just like you do in Weyland.


Cerebral Imaging with Scorched Earch combo meets your design idea, does it not? Cerebral Imaging seems like a natural fit for this combo since it tends to stockpile credits and cards in hand, which are both necessary for the combo to work.
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Captain Frisk
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kroen wrote:
So you're saying I should just switch to Scorched Imaging. Thanks, super helpful.


With responses like this - you might not get the help that you're looking for. You are practically playing Scorched Imaging with all of the operation econ and card draw, but you've screwed yourself because you can't hold all those cards in your hand...

To attempt to be polite - look at the list.

If you're not up for changing what you consider to be the "core" of the deck (eff committee, the ID, and power shutdown combo), then you have a decent amount of auto include).

3x Shutdown
3x Jackson
3x Accelerated Diagnostics
2x Scorch
1x Sea Source

You obviously have to play all of that. That leaves you with 3 influence remaining, which you are currently using on 1x Sea Source and 1x Anon Tip. Personally, I would probably try a playset of Ice Wall, Wraparound or Popup Window.

- The cheap ETR for purposes of trying to score agendas (at which point I might try Gila Hands instead of False Lead). When testing this route I'd include the cheap ETR package (Wraparound | Ice Wall / Quandary / Rototurret)

- The popup window for getting more economy. This would be more of a taxing build.

I'm going to assume 3x Eff. Committee is also a requirement so that I don't get yelled at.

Now you need some econ, so hedge fund is probably auto include. GLC also makes sense. BLC may be too much draw.

You could try playing 5/3 agendas for purposes of reducing agenda density so you can put restructure in.

Archived memories is an odd card here - I'd probably cut it in favor of ice, and at least 1 biotic labor (for doing cool combo stuff)

There honestly just isn't that much you can move around here.

Play it and see what happens!
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Alejandro G.
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kroen wrote:
So you're saying I should just switch to Scorched Imaging. Thanks, super helpful.


I actually said more than just, "Switch to Cerebral Imaging" you wonderful, kindhearted person you. Despite all of this however...

Some of the best Scorched Decks (that I've played and lost often to) are in HB: Cerebral Imaging. Once the Corp player has two Bioroids, let's say Heimdall 1.0s on R&D. I have to spend a ridiculous amount of money to get in there. Once I've spent that money if I don't keep a high credit pool, they can eventually just sit back and wait to Sea Source/Scorched Earth me. If they can get solid Bioroids maybe even just x2 Eli 1.0s on HQ then I am paying a lot just to see one card unless I'm hitting them with Legwork.

Even then if they've amassed a huge hand, what good is seeing only THREE cards out of 24 going to be? It's a tough deck to beat. Still gives me trouble to this day.

So yes Cerebral Imaging allows you to hold ALL the pieces of the combo in your hand as another user stated above.

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I think you can do something like this in Custom Biotics, but I think you're on the edge of two decks. One deck you can't implement because it wants and needs neural emp. That's a deck that uses fenris, labrynth and others to get the runner to a state where you can biotic and archived memory into 3 net damage (which most poeple can't prevent) while they can only hold 2 cards in hand. That's a wonderfully fun deck to play, but like I said, I don't think you can do it with this ID. If you want to use this ID, I think losing labrinth might be the right way to go. You can keep fenris, and maybe going down to 2x grim.

:: Operations ::
Lose 1 shutdown for a trouble shooter. Lose 1 sea source for a midseasons. Now, you can fight against decoy. And you can make some of those ice land when they have breakers.

:: ICE ::
I'd try to run no more than 2x of any ice with ETR in each ice type at least twice.

My ice suite might look like this (ignoring your other influence for the moment):
1x Wraparound/Bastion/IceWall/Wall of Static, 3x Eli
2x Fenris, 1x Ichi 2.0, 1x Ichi 1.0, 1x Grim
2x Viktor 2.0, 2x Enigma/Quandary

On to agendas:
Now, with all the bad pub this deck can generate, NAPD might be a bad choice. It's a good stall and waste of money for the runner, but you're going to have a hard time scoring it. Often, ash will cost them just as much putting them into scorch range by depleting their accounts. (Throw an eli on a remote with an ash, add any agenda in there too and in a single turn the runner won't be able to steal without paying less than 4 credits. Even if they run in and trash the ash to run in again, they'll have to pay for the eli again. You're talking 2 clicks + 4 credits + 3 credits (to keep it from happening again). That's 7 and a loss of two clicks. For a scorch deck, that's exactly what you want. If they pay into the eli too, then it's 11 credits. I think finding space for Ash might be better than running some of the operations you have, playing it in a way where you intend for them to steal the agenda.

(I'm noticing despite the name a lack of biotic labor). Finding space for it would give you the chance to score. Once you've flashed some brain damage cards you might be able to sneak a 5/3 as a trap and follow up by bioticing 2 3/2s. To do this, 2x Project Wotan. 3x Vitruvius, 3x Accelerated Beta Test, & 2x False Lead.

I'd probably lose the shutdown combo (Keep Jackson & Shutdown) since it isn't always reliable and shore up the edges with a biotic labor plan. I'd also go up 1 subliminal messaging in favor of a blue or green level, you're going to have some serious pooling in your hand.

The deck you posted is an all or nothing scorch deck and it'll pull it off occasionally, but it'll probably lose to a centrals dedicated dig deck more often.

Finally, Research Station could be imported if you wanted to do what CI does, just in less quantities. If it gets trashed, you'll have a turn to drop operations and it'll also be less credits/clicks the corp has.
 
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Michael Redston
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Custom Biotics. Biotic Labor isn't the only card with "bio" in it.

Thank you all for making me realizing that thinking outside the box is bad mkay. I will try my best to stay inside the box from now on, so I can be just like any other boring player/deckbuilder.*

*No not really. You want to live inside a boring box that's fine, it's not for me though.

 
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kroen wrote:
Custom Biotics. Biotic Labor isn't the only card with "bio" in it.

Thank you all for making me realizing that thinking outside the box is bad mkay. I will try my best to stay inside the box from now on, so I can be just like any other boring player/deckbuilder.*

*No not really. You want to live inside a boring box that's fine, it's not for me though.


So your design restrictions are actually;
1. Custom Biotics
2. Scorched Earth
3. Power Shutdown?
4. SEA Source?

You are being defensive for no reason, there was no way of knowing from the OP that Custom Biotics is/was a design restriction.
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Michael Redston
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slacks wrote:
You are being defensive for no reason, there was no way of knowing from the OP that Custom Biotics is/was a design restriction.

There needn't have been. This deck uses 22 influence and cutting it down to 15 and switching the identity would make for an entirely different deck.
 
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Zeb
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kroen wrote:

The idea is to initiate a Scorch Shutdown combo just like you do in Weyland.


This is what you gave us, we answered you:

kroen wrote:
What improvements would you suggest?


In return, we received:

kroen wrote:
Thank you all for making me realizing that thinking outside the box is bad mkay. I will try my best to stay inside the box from now on, so I can be just like any other boring player/deckbuilder.


Do you see the problem here?
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kroen wrote:
Custom Biotics. Biotic Labor isn't the only card with "bio" in it.

Thank you all for making me realizing that thinking outside the box is bad mkay. I will try my best to stay inside the box from now on, so I can be just like any other boring player/deckbuilder.*

*No not really. You want to live inside a boring box that's fine, it's not for me though.





For what it's worth, I love thinking outside the box, but I don't think any deck the relies on a single strategy is as good as it could be. As a scorch-only deck you might be as good as you could be... MIGHT. I made plenty of recommendations for how you could build slightly differently to get an affect out of the runner that worked well with a card or two already in the deck. I'll summarize the problems I found, again, and leave out the solutions. You can figure it out:

1) BP vs NAPD.
2) Being able to score with ice that doesn't stop the runner.
3) Being so porous that destroying breakers doesn't matter.
4) Whittling the handsize too much when getting the max hand size below 3 doesn't matter.
5) Not having a plan if decoy hits the table.
6) Sucking it hard to Donut.
7) Not thinking about what the faction you are playing in is bringing to the table.

You're very focused on a combo right now. And that combo will occasionally win you games. It won't be enough to win a majority of them and I was offering other strategies that would pressure the runner to care about combating something to make your main strategy more effective.

The only one not thinking outside the box is you. You've built a box around your original deck list.
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kroen wrote:
slacks wrote:
You are being defensive for no reason, there was no way of knowing from the OP that Custom Biotics is/was a design restriction.

There needn't have been. This deck uses 22 influence and cutting it down to 15 and switching the identity would make for an entirely different deck.

Again, what are your actual design restrictions?
The suggested deck is not "entirely different" than the one you posted, in fact it met all the same listed goals and remained in faction. So you need to be a little clearer about what exactly you are looking for. Not listing your restrictions and then getting upset when people cannot read your mind is not at all helpful.

Please keep in mind that facilitating creative thinking is a balancing act. On the one hand it is easy to fall into old thinking without any new constraints, but on the other hand too many constraints make the creative space too limited.
 
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Robbie M.
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kroen wrote:
I will try my best to stay inside the box from now on

Please make it a pine box .
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kroen wrote:
The advantage of HB is that if you can score an Efficiency Committee... This deck really isn't equipped to win by scoring anyhow.


So the advantage is something that won't ever happen? There's really no way to score that EffCom, unless you set it up behind Fenris before *any* Killer/AI breaker hits the table. Good luck with that.

Suggestions:
1) More ice. Viktor 2 might be useful here -- taxing and threatens brain damage, which furthers both of your ends.
2) If you want to include this much program destruction, more ice that requires breakers. As of now, the only thing I care about you blowing up is my Mimic. I guess you might also slow down some Mopus decks.
3) Not sure the Anonymous tip is the best use of influence. You've got tons of draw going already, and no way to hold all those cards. Maybe a Shipment from SanSan? Then the combo can also threaten an AP win (especially if, as others have suggested, you include some Biotic Labors).
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Rob B
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If your plan was to initiate a sneaky Scorched Earth... you're using the wrong identity. Everybody expects scorched earth vs. Custom Biotics. I mean, what else would you use all that influence for? Super telegraphic right off the bat.

The ICE in this deck is insufficient and porous, NAPD is anti-synergistic with half the bp generating ICE in your deck.. and your core strategy is screwed the second the runner puts up a plascrete/decoy and maintains a hand size of 4. You can't win by Agenda scoring in this deck, and you can't win by a surprise combo.

Also, if your plan is the Shutdown combo - why are you bothering with a 2nd SEA Source? Or 3 Accelerated Diagnostics? That card will be a dead draw more often than not.
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Rob B
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Further readings of your later post makes me feel that you're kind of a dick Khoen.

You should probably be less whiney if you're asking for feedback, and people give you honest advise telling you that your deck isn't king shit as is while throwing in pertinent suggestions.
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Snake_Eyes wrote:
If your plan was to initiate a sneaky Scorched Earth... you're using the wrong identity. Everybody expects scorched earth vs. Custom Biotics. I mean, what else would you use all that influence for? Super telegraphic right off the bat.


See, now the wheels are turning in mah noggin... most common CB decks seem to be Scorch/MSR (sometimes both). I think I'll be spending some time perusing other high-influence cards to see what kind of unexpected shenanigans you could pull off.

Of course, all these high-inf cards are still only coming from Weyland/NBN, which is a little limiting (until Grail ICE and other influence-costing neutrals arrive anyway).
 
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kroen wrote:
So you're saying I should just switch to Scorched Imaging. Thanks, super helpful.


Although you're being ironic, that advice is in fact super helpful for what you're trying to achieve.

kroen wrote:
Custom Biotics. Biotic Labor isn't the only card with "bio" in it.

Thank you all for making me realizing that thinking outside the box is bad mkay. I will try my best to stay inside the box from now on, so I can be just like any other boring player/deckbuilder.*

*No not really. You want to live inside a boring box that's fine, it's not for me though.



There's a difference between thinking outside the box, and trying to fit a shit idea into the wrong shaped box.
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Alejandro G.
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Kroen,

You keep being this way with people who are trying to help. I'm not sure why many of us even bother anymore...
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Michael Redston
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sigh we all agree this deck is bad (me included) so how about we let this thread die mkay
 
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