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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » Rules

Subject: Spock and Dmitri Valtene using the same SCAN? rss

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Daniel van de Laar
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Can the same Scan Token enable Spock's conversion of Battle Stations and Dmitri's re-rolling of up to two dice?
 
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Raleigh of Borg
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I don't think so, i think you can only "activate" one ability per token, even if it doesn't cost the token to use.
 
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Skyguard
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Danvan wrote:
Can the same Scan Token enable Spock's conversion of Battle Stations and Dmitri's re-rolling of up to two dice?


No two upgrades (crew,talent,tech,weapon) can not trigger off the same token. It's on the last page 22 of the rule book.
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Daniel van de Laar
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Skyguard wrote:
Danvan wrote:
Can the same Scan Token enable Spock's conversion of Battle Stations and Dmitri's re-rolling of up to two dice?


No two upgrades (crew,talent,tech,weapon) can not trigger off the same token. It's on the last page 22 of the rule book.


That's what I thought. Thanks
 
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David Griffin
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You could do it on the Tinyprise with Janeway to do double scan tokens. One token to trigger each effect.
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Dave C
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carbon_dragon wrote:
You could do it on the Tinyprise with Janeway to do double scan tokens. One token to trigger each effect.


Or, have both on the same ship and wait until you see what your roll is before deciding if you'd prefer to use Spock or Valtane on the roll. Though the Janewayprise would be my preference as well.
 
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Stephen Thorpe
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I'd go with Flagshipped Excelsior for preference.

Don't need Spock as the Flagship gives free Battlestations and Excelsior's free Scan can be used for Valtane.

Plus you've still got your normal action.
 
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Daniel van de Laar
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SteRT wrote:
I'd go with Flagshipped Excelsior for preference.

Don't need Spock as the Flagship gives free Battlestations and Excelsior's free Scan can be used for Valtane.

Plus you've still got your normal action.


The fellow who was using these in a recent OP was flying an ENT-D on a Free Scan Flag ship. I didn't think much of it at the time, but after I was trying to figure out how he managed to do so much damage, I recall seeing Spock and Valtene on the same ship using the same token. Then I recalled that in some circumstances when the trigger is not the same, you can use the same scan - I just wanted to make sure that I was right about the matter so that it doesn't happen again. I am pretty sure it was an honest mistake, but I lost that OP in part because of this combo.

Thanks.
 
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David Griffin
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Danvan wrote:
SteRT wrote:
I'd go with Flagshipped Excelsior for preference.

Don't need Spock as the Flagship gives free Battlestations and Excelsior's free Scan can be used for Valtane.

Plus you've still got your normal action.


The fellow who was using these in a recent OP was flying an ENT-D on a Free Scan Flag ship. I didn't think much of it at the time, but after I was trying to figure out how he managed to do so much damage, I recall seeing Spock and Valtene on the same ship using the same token. Then I recalled that in some circumstances when the trigger is not the same, you can use the same scan - I just wanted to make sure that I was right about the matter so that it doesn't happen again. I am pretty sure it was an honest mistake, but I lost that OP in part because of this combo.

Thanks.


The rules of this game can be complicated with all the interaction. I just found out that with Picard on a Fed ship you need to be careful what actions you assign to Picard rather than just assuming you can do 2. It's obvious now, but it wasn't obvious before. So many rule interactions and careful wording on cards implying one interpretation but maybe not saying it.

I guess what I'm saying is those sorts of mistakes happen to the most careful players.
 
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Daniel van de Laar
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carbon_dragon wrote:

The rules of this game can be complicated with all the interaction. I just found out that with Picard on a Fed ship you need to be careful what actions you assign to Picard rather than just assuming you can do 2. It's obvious now, but it wasn't obvious before. So many rule interactions and careful wording on cards implying one interpretation but maybe not saying it.

I guess what I'm saying is those sorts of mistakes happen to the most careful players.


Agreed. I have at times found errors in my own play -after the fact- that I hadn't realized I was doing wrong at the time. Best we can hope for is to learn as much as we can, and be gracious with others who may not have the advantages of experience and familiarity.

DANVAN
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David Griffin
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Too bad there isn't an IOS game you can play that will enforce the rules and let you know where you get something wrong. It would probably be nice to have a rules app that allowed for searching through the document and included all the FAQ rulings and even the player "beliefs" of how certain rules should be played.
 
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Thomas Ryan
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Skyguard wrote:
Danvan wrote:
Can the same Scan Token enable Spock's conversion of Battle Stations and Dmitri's re-rolling of up to two dice?


No two upgrades (crew,talent,tech,weapon) can not trigger off the same token. It's on the last page 22 of the rule book.


but what about more than one attack? If I have 2 scan modified upgrades and 2 attacks (I am thinking ED here) how does that work?
 
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Kenn Mikos
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tpryan01 wrote:
Skyguard wrote:
Danvan wrote:
Can the same Scan Token enable Spock's conversion of Battle Stations and Dmitri's re-rolling of up to two dice?


No two upgrades (crew,talent,tech,weapon) can not trigger off the same token. It's on the last page 22 of the rule book.


but what about more than one attack? If I have 2 scan modified upgrades and 2 attacks (I am thinking ED here) how does that work?


A single token can trigger the same upgrade more than once, so you could use, say, Valtane on both the ED and the second attack. However, you can't use Valtane for one and Spock for the other, since the rule states that only one upgrade may trigger off of a single token per round.
 
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eris lulz
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Too bad there isn't an IOS game you can play that will enforce the rules and let you know where you get something wrong. It would probably be nice to have a rules app that allowed for searching through the document and included all the FAQ rulings and even the player "beliefs" of how certain rules should be played.


you mean like:
http://iraw.wikia.com
 
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David Griffin
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eristicle wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
Too bad there isn't an IOS game you can play that will enforce the rules and let you know where you get something wrong. It would probably be nice to have a rules app that allowed for searching through the document and included all the FAQ rulings and even the player "beliefs" of how certain rules should be played.


you mean like:
http://iraw.wikia.com


Great link, thanks.
 
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D Conklin
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eristicle wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
Too bad there isn't an IOS game you can play that will enforce the rules and let you know where you get something wrong. It would probably be nice to have a rules app that allowed for searching through the document and included all the FAQ rulings and even the player "beliefs" of how certain rules should be played.


you mean like:
http://iraw.wikia.com


When did this get created? I thought we were still using the BGG wiki: STAW: ?
 
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dc0nklin wrote:

When did this get created? I thought we were still using the BGG wiki: STAW: ?


We are. I'm not sure why eristicle is pushing to move.

Not a dig, I'm not really seeing why it make more sense to have it in another place.
 
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David Griffin
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Skyguard wrote:
dc0nklin wrote:

When did this get created? I thought we were still using the BGG wiki: STAW: ?


We are. I'm not sure why eristicle is pushing to move.

Not a dig, I'm not really seeing why it make more sense to have it in another place.


It's a lot easier to use as a website than it is to search the HUGE number of pages in the questions threads. Maybe you're just referring to the initial FAQ section though. I really like it. The thing is, that to be really useful it has all the "blessed" answers and as long as they are marked as such it would be useful to have our own best answers pending adjudication too.

I do not in general like games that need this extensive an FAQ support to play, but it's such a fun game I think it is worth it.
 
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The BGG wiki's kind of out of date, and as has been said, it's not the easiest to find what you're looking for. e.g. Borg OP rulings that Chris has covered so far, how dual faction is handled, even just rules on disabled cards.

I'm updating that iraw wiki all the time, current reformatting it so it's even easier to read with better layout and highlighting of what a rulings about. Some pages are still pretty ugly since I pretty much just dumped the rulings in there to get the content done.. now i can pretty it up a bit and I'll add card images in the future so people can see the card text for themselves as they're reading the rulings.

Pretty much all the rulings on their are highlighted as official answers and have links to the post that Chris or Andrew thumbed or wrote the ruling in. So if it's got an [Offical] stamp next to it you can trust that it's pulled from their post and not just something I made up or cut and pasted from someone random cos i liked it.

I'm sure that if the BGG wiki gets updated, then people who have been using that for a long time will continue to use that, I'm just trying to offer another option where it might be a little easier, quicker and clearer to find what you're looking for.

Feedback, be it positive or negative, is totally welcome.
 
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Eris why not just spend the same time updating the the wiki here on BBG? Is there some reason that the iraw is a better solution?
 
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this is all my own opinion of course:

site navigation - breaking things down into categories and factions makes it easier to navigate to what you want.

layout - having more control of spacing, images and text attributes means info can be presented in a more readable and identifiable way.

writing the site - it's easier to maintain. the mark up is simple, the wysiwyg editor is quick and simple for certain tasks, e.g. making a link to the federation section takes a single click. so it's much easier to quickly create a network of embedded links between rulings as different cards interact. ease of maintaining it is a big bonus imo as that's why things fall out of being updated regularly.

mobile device support - the iraw site doesn't look terrible on phones/tablets.. well it look ok on mine (ymmv, but let me know and maybe i can fix the problem). which means if a TO wants to find something quickly or if friends are just playing at the club they can use their phones to get there quickly and simply. all they need to remember is iraw.wikia.com


I think that's about it.. but I think those are decent reasons. If you're mid-playing a game then you want to be able to find and digest the info you want quickly and easily. I don't think the bgg wiki does that, so for me to update that when I don't think it serves that purpose, well it wouldn't feel particularly rewarding.
 
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