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Pathfinder Adventure Card Game: Rise of the Runelords – Base Set» Forums » General

Subject: Class balance question rss

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Lorenzo Moore
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Our group just started expansion 4 and we've been having a great time but we started talking about the balance of the classes, and the more I thought about it the more I started to wonder.

I play Ezren, who seems to have the ability to absolutely nuke things into oblivion. I can cast a spell and use a wand (item) and roll 1d12 + 7d6 + 5 from stats and I'm pretty much guaranteed to explode the villain into tiny bits. (well, at least one of the checks anyway).

My question though, is that the ranged or sword & board classes don't seem to have the ability to come anywhere close the that amount of damage. Most of the weapons I've seen in the game are just a 1d8+2, or a 1d10+2. That's no where near the devastation spells cause.

Are we doing something wrong? Or is this just the way it is?
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Todd Warnken
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Weapons may not do as much but they do not need to be discarded to work.
 
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John Davis
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You cannot cast a spell and use a wand on the same check, just as you cannot use a spell and a weapon on the same check, or use a weapon and a wand on the same check.
Wand of Scorching Ray gives you 4d6 as your combat check, and that's all (unless you play a blessing).
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Andrew Warner
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What Wand are you playing with your Spell? You can't play two cards that both define the Skill for the check. A spell like Scorching Ray and an item like Wand of Scorching Ray both define the Skill for the check, so you can't play them on one check.

Rulebook v3 p11 wrote:
Some cards may allow you to replace the required skill for a check with a different one; as part of this action, you may play only
1 card or use only 1 power that defines the skill you are going to use.


So I don't see how you are getting that 7d6 part.

Weapon users can use more than one weapon, if one of them is a weapon like a Dagger.
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Chris M
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From your statement it appears you are using the Wand of Scorching Ray (4d6 Fire damage) with a Lightning Bolt spell (Arcane + 3d6)...

Well that is against the rules. Both cards start out with "For your combat check,..." You can only use one (1) such card for a (combat) check.

The only wand that I can think that you can use with the Wand of Enervation (remove 1d4+4 (if you are arcane) from the target number of the monster) but that works for anyone.

So Ezren can regularly do a Lightning Bolt for D12+3D6+8 (max skill + Robe of Runes)

Other characters can do similar - although Mer and Val do tremendous damage.

Commonly, for example, Val can do 3D10 + 8 (Bastard Sword + 1/,recycled, with max skill bonus)

ninja'd

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Byron Campbell
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As mentioned, you only get one card that says "For your combat check" per check, so no doubling up on wands and spells. However, Ezren is still a damage monster (glad somebody else recognizes this--he is my favorite character, but pretty unpopular with most players).

Another thing: most weapons deal your strength/melee skill plus 1d8/1d10 plus 2, which is an important distinction. Also, they only need to be revealed; if you discard them, you usually get an additional 1d8, on average. Anybody can nuke most villains, especially if there are other players to chip in with blessings or other powers.

All characters have their strengths and weaknesses. Ezren can cause a lot of DPS, but doesn't get any blessings ever.
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Lorenzo Moore
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I see, well that helps explain things.

I was under the impression that I could use an item and a spell at the same time because they were different card types.
 
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Byron Campbell
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Note that you COULD play a spell like Incendiary Cloud when you encounter the villain, then play Wand of Scorching Ray for your actual check, but I'm not sure that adds up to the number of dice you stated.
 
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Chris M
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You can play multiple cards (1 per type per player) but only one with "For your combat check, "
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David Ainsworth
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Wand of Enervation works with spells, essentially giving you an extra D4+4 (for Ezren) on your check.
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Michael Bishop
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Right, you can play 1 card per type per player to add to a check. You can only play one card that is your check. Cards that say "For your combat check..." are your check. Blessings (and other cards) say something like "Add 1 die to a check" which obviously add to a check.
 
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Lorenzo Moore
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Mundane wrote:
Weapons may not do as much but they do not need to be discarded to work.


...but I can recharge them instead if I'm lucky with the dice. Or am I doing that wrong too?
 
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Todd Warnken
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esher127 wrote:
Mundane wrote:
Weapons may not do as much but they do not need to be discarded to work.


...but I can recharge them instead if I'm lucky with the dice. Or am I doing that wrong too?


Weapons do not normally recharge. They can be discarded to an extra benefit. Valeros has the ability to recharge them instead of discarding them.
 
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MC Crispy
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Mundane wrote:
esher127 wrote:
Mundane wrote:
Weapons may not do as much but they do not need to be discarded to work.


...but I can recharge them instead if I'm lucky with the dice. Or am I doing that wrong too?


Weapons do not normally recharge. They can be discarded to an extra benefit. Valeros has the ability to recharge them instead of discarding them.
I think he meant spells can be recharged. Which is correct (with provisos)
 
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Matthew M
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esher127 wrote:
Mundane wrote:
Weapons may not do as much but they do not need to be discarded to work.


...but I can recharge them instead if I'm lucky with the dice. Or am I doing that wrong too?


You can recharge them, but then you need to wait until it comes up again.

A weapon using character will almost always have the weapon available.

 
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Lorenzo Moore
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Octavian wrote:
esher127 wrote:
Mundane wrote:
Weapons may not do as much but they do not need to be discarded to work.


...but I can recharge them instead if I'm lucky with the dice. Or am I doing that wrong too?


You can recharge them, but then you need to wait until it comes up again.

A weapon using character will almost always have the weapon available.



Yeah, I get that. With 10 spells in my deck now it's rare I don't have one in my hand but I know what you're saying.

Honestly, I still feel my original point still stands. Taking away the wand of scorching ray, I have a spell (can't remember the name) that lets me roll 1d12 + 3d6 + 5 from stats + 2 because it's ice (Invoker). That's still seems silly strong compared to, say, my brother who plays Harsk.
 
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Andrew Warner
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esher127 wrote:
Octavian wrote:
esher127 wrote:
Mundane wrote:
Weapons may not do as much but they do not need to be discarded to work.


...but I can recharge them instead if I'm lucky with the dice. Or am I doing that wrong too?


You can recharge them, but then you need to wait until it comes up again.

A weapon using character will almost always have the weapon available.



Yeah, I get that. With 10 spells in my deck now it's rare I don't have one in my hand but I know what you're saying.

Honestly, I still feel my original point still stands. Taking away the wand of scorching ray, I have a spell (can't remember the name) that lets me roll 1d12 + 3d6 + 5 from stats + 2 because it's ice (Invoker). That's still seems silly strong compared to, say, my brother who plays Harsk.


Frost Ray is the spell with the Cold trait. It does Arcane + 2d6. Lightning Bolt is the one that does Arcane + 3d6, it has the Electricity trait. You'll have to invest 3 power feats after you get your role card to have that Evoker power for Electricity. Assuming you also invest enough skill feats to get Ezren up to +4 in his Intelligence, you'll be rolling 1d12 + 3d6 + 8 and you'll hope to end up recharging that spell.

Let's say Harsk also investing 4 skill feats in Dexterity, take the sniper role and puts 1 power feat towards recharging his Ranged weapons. He picks up an Acidic Sling in Adventure 5 (the same time Ezren will be able to take that 3rd Power feat in Evoker). He will roll 1d8 + 1d6 + 3d4 + 10.

http://anydice.com/program/40c8
Harsk will a slightly better average at 26 vs. Ezren's 25 and Harsk has only a slightly lower maximum at 36 compared to Ezren's 38. And it only took Harsk 1 power feat compared to 3 for Ezren.

But that is really an over simplification. Consider these factors:

State of the cards
Harsk is guaranteed to recharge due to his power. Ezren has to make a check.

Allies
Harsk will have more allies to help him for a few reasons. First, the ones that would help his Dexterity combat check also explore (Archer (x3), Shalelu Andosana, Black Arrow Ranger (x3)), while Ezren will probably be hesitant to take the non-exploring Acolyte and will have to hope to get that one Clockwork Librarian or a Pyromaniac Mage. Second all those allies for Harsk are deck 3 or earlier, while the ones for Ezren are decks 4 and 5.

Blessings
Harsk is also able to pack his own blessings, making it more likely to have a Blessing of Erastil available, while Ezren will have to rely on someone else willing to keep Blessing of Pharasma in their deck.

Roles
Plus, Evokers are supposed to be good at blowing things up. And the game is about more than just how high you can roll on a check. Harsk can know what's coming. He can help others in their combat checks. Or look at Valeros with a Longwsord +2 from deck 3 can average 22.5. Through in a Dancing Scimitar +2 and he's up to 28.
http://anydice.com/program/40c9

None of that means Ezren isn't great. I love playing him. (By the way, the Pyromaniac Mage or Poog is a great way to get your Evoker power to work on Spells like Disintegrate. Or play a "cloud" spell with the necessary trait.) But don't underestimate what the other characters can do in combat too. Or what else they can bring to the table.

Good luck on your adventure.
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