Jon Badolato
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/8/5868717/sam-brownback-kansas-tax...

3 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Van Horn
United States
Othello
Washington
flag msg tools
I admit it, I killed her, I killed Yvette. I hated her so much
badge
Flames...flames on the side of my face...breathing...breathle...heaving breathes
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jonb wrote:


One of the downfalls of these kind of tax cuts is that the projections are always over sold and the benefits are kind of dependent on other things that are not guaranteed and realistically will take time to be evident or realize. Invariably the first year is always going to be HORRIBLE and pretending otherwise is disengenuous at best.
1 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Badolato
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
jonb wrote:


One of the downfalls of these kind of tax cuts is that the projections are always over sold and the benefits are kind of dependent on other things that are not guaranteed and realistically will take time to be evident or realize. Invariably the first year is always going to be HORRIBLE and pretending otherwise is disengenuous at best.


Yes, but it never gets any better. How is the private sector going to make up for the lost revenue from tax cuts if their job growth lags the rest of the nation. People who put forth these schemes that tax cuts will somehow fuel growth that will offset the lost revenue ALWAYS seem to overproject. They've been doing so since the days of Reagan. When will they learn not to do so ?
7 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jonb wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
jonb wrote:


One of the downfalls of these kind of tax cuts is that the projections are always over sold and the benefits are kind of dependent on other things that are not guaranteed and realistically will take time to be evident or realize. Invariably the first year is always going to be HORRIBLE and pretending otherwise is disengenuous at best.


Yes, but it never gets any better. How is the private sector going to make up for the lost revenue from tax cuts if their job growth lags the rest of the nation. People who put forth these schemes that tax cuts will somehow fuel growth that will offset the lost revenue ALWAYS seem to overproject. They've been doing so since the days of Reagan. When will they learn not to do so ?


Maybe if they could... I dunno... get spending under control along with tax cuts? It's a thought. Hell, even put the spending control before the tax cuts. Crazy, right?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Van Horn
United States
Othello
Washington
flag msg tools
I admit it, I killed her, I killed Yvette. I hated her so much
badge
Flames...flames on the side of my face...breathing...breathle...heaving breathes
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GameCrossing wrote:
jonb wrote:
GuidoVanHorn wrote:
jonb wrote:


One of the downfalls of these kind of tax cuts is that the projections are always over sold and the benefits are kind of dependent on other things that are not guaranteed and realistically will take time to be evident or realize. Invariably the first year is always going to be HORRIBLE and pretending otherwise is disengenuous at best.


Yes, but it never gets any better. How is the private sector going to make up for the lost revenue from tax cuts if their job growth lags the rest of the nation. People who put forth these schemes that tax cuts will somehow fuel growth that will offset the lost revenue ALWAYS seem to overproject. They've been doing so since the days of Reagan. When will they learn not to do so ?


Maybe if they could... I dunno... get spending under control along with tax cuts? It's a thought. Hell, even put the spending control before the tax cuts. Crazy, right?

One of the interesting tidbits was that the original proposal eliminated or scaled back some tax exemptions which is a fair bit I rational tax cutting lower the rate but increase the tax pool already in place but lawmakers just couldn't do it and instead of scrapping it they went ahead even more recklessy
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Badolato
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A surplus is nothing to really brag about this year. Many states are experiencing them:

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2014/jan/27/s...

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jeremy cobert
United States
cedar rapids
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
You mean like Scott Walker and the Republicans here did?


It's also working here in Iowa where the republicans took control away from the leftists and slowed down their nutty spending spree. If you cut taxes but cant curb spending, you will go into the shitter.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shawn Fox
United States
Richardson
Texas
flag msg tools
Question everything
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Koldfoot wrote:
25% cut in taxes, resulting in an expected 10% decrease in revenue, an unmentioned 7% increase in state spending, and amongst the lowest unemployment rate in the nation, does not add up to a repudiation of the validity of tax cuts as a means of stimulating the economy. Especially since we are talking about 2 years. Tax cuts create immediate decreases in revenue, followed by job creation over a period of several years. If you were to have hired me 6 months ago the state would not see any revenue from me for 16 months. The corporate cuts would hit immediately.

The article reminds me of May hysterics about disappearing Antarctic ice, soon to be followed by July reports of the greatest extent of Antarctic sea ice ever.

We'll see.


You are also ignoring the benefits gained by spending more money as well. Better education, better nutrition, better healthcare. These things also pay dividends over time. Wisconsin in particular is a great example of that with their massive cuts in educational spending. Sure it looks great on paper in the near term, but eventually all those uneducated kids become uneducated adults and then they vote Republican. Oh... wait... now it all makes sense.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sfox wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
25% cut in taxes, resulting in an expected 10% decrease in revenue, an unmentioned 7% increase in state spending, and amongst the lowest unemployment rate in the nation, does not add up to a repudiation of the validity of tax cuts as a means of stimulating the economy. Especially since we are talking about 2 years. Tax cuts create immediate decreases in revenue, followed by job creation over a period of several years. If you were to have hired me 6 months ago the state would not see any revenue from me for 16 months. The corporate cuts would hit immediately.

The article reminds me of May hysterics about disappearing Antarctic ice, soon to be followed by July reports of the greatest extent of Antarctic sea ice ever.

We'll see.


You are also ignoring the benefits gained by spending more money as well. Better education, better nutrition, better healthcare. These things also pay dividends over time. Wisconsin in particular is a great example of that with their massive cuts in educational spending. Sure it looks great on paper in the near term, but eventually all those uneducated kids become uneducated adults and then they vote Republican. Oh... wait... now it all makes sense.


HEY!!!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Koldfoot wrote:
sfox wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
25% cut in taxes, resulting in an expected 10% decrease in revenue, an unmentioned 7% increase in state spending, and amongst the lowest unemployment rate in the nation, does not add up to a repudiation of the validity of tax cuts as a means of stimulating the economy. Especially since we are talking about 2 years. Tax cuts create immediate decreases in revenue, followed by job creation over a period of several years. If you were to have hired me 6 months ago the state would not see any revenue from me for 16 months. The corporate cuts would hit immediately.

The article reminds me of May hysterics about disappearing Antarctic ice, soon to be followed by July reports of the greatest extent of Antarctic sea ice ever.

We'll see.


You are also ignoring the benefits gained by spending more money as well. Better education, better nutrition, better healthcare. These things also pay dividends over time. Wisconsin in particular is a great example of that with their massive cuts in educational spending. Sure it looks great on paper in the near term, but eventually all those uneducated kids become uneducated adults and then they vote Republican. Oh... wait... now it all makes sense.


Purely out of curiosity, why did you quote me as if your response was somehow addressing anything I mentioned at all?

Did you start to say something else and completely went in another direction?


I'm guessing opportunity costs. Yes, you can reduce spending, but at what cost? If it is stuff like public works, that's one thing. But if it is future investment (education, infrastructure, etc.) then you have to start weighing the benefits of that reduced spending compared to the long-term costs that go with crumbling roads or dumber kids.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's hard to say with so much partisan noise.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/01/27/what-fox-wont-te...

Seems to say that walker's cuts are going to lead to a large structural deficit by 2017.

Walker's state is 28th in job creation. That may be good for a heartland/non-port state or in light of it's population. I would expect new york, california, and texas to create a lot of jobs- they have a lot of people.

Interesting read in any case.

I don't automatically assume government spending will have a positive result any more than I assume giving tax cuts to private business will result in a net gain in revenue. It "depends" in both cases.




3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
They call me....
United States
Columbia
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Games? People still play games??
badge
Specious arguments are not proof of trollish intent.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Koldfoot wrote:
sfox wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
25% cut in taxes, resulting in an expected 10% decrease in revenue, an unmentioned 7% increase in state spending, and amongst the lowest unemployment rate in the nation, does not add up to a repudiation of the validity of tax cuts as a means of stimulating the economy. Especially since we are talking about 2 years. Tax cuts create immediate decreases in revenue, followed by job creation over a period of several years. If you were to have hired me 6 months ago the state would not see any revenue from me for 16 months. The corporate cuts would hit immediately.

The article reminds me of May hysterics about disappearing Antarctic ice, soon to be followed by July reports of the greatest extent of Antarctic sea ice ever.

We'll see.


You are also ignoring the benefits gained by spending more money as well. Better education, better nutrition, better healthcare. These things also pay dividends over time. Wisconsin in particular is a great example of that with their massive cuts in educational spending. Sure it looks great on paper in the near term, but eventually all those uneducated kids become uneducated adults and then they vote Republican. Oh... wait... now it all makes sense.


Purely out of curiosity, why did you quote me as if your response was somehow addressing anything I mentioned at all?

Did you start to say something else and completely went in another direction?


The connection was pretty clear to me, if only tangential to the larger (and more amusing) point. You talked about immediacy versus long-term effects, and sfox highlighted a different set of long-term effects that your analysis appeared to be discounting.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Badolato
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:


Geez, at least find a source that isn't just a Democrat Propaganda site. Run by children. For children.


Source really doesn't matter if their points are sound. If you could tell me what you find wrong with what they state in some way I am open to your observations.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Badolato
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:


Geez, at least find a source that isn't just a Democrat Propaganda site. Run by children. For children.


Source really doesn't matter if their points are sound.


Yes, but first you gotta get me to click.


So you see the source as partisan, run by children, for children, but failed to actually read the piece. Got it.

Then you're not addressing their point. Your merely validating your preconceived notions that they're automatically wrong.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Badolato
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And yet my point from my previous post still stands.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Badolato
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
A media that leans almost entirely in one direction politically is bad for this nation. (It would be just as bad of the media was far-right and covered over all the sins of a Republican administration, but that's about as unlikely as a dodo hatching from a duck egg.) But then add ignorance, lack of curiosity, and general laziness. Such is the state of our "fourth estate."


What does this have anything to do with what's happening in Kansas ? Nowhere did I claim that the media in this country slants in one direction politically ? That's usually a right wing meme.
And nowhere have I said Vox is somehow to be considered gospel truth.
Dude, are you OK. You're moving off on strange tangents.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jonb wrote:
Quote:
A media that leans almost entirely in one direction politically is bad for this nation. (It would be just as bad of the media was far-right and covered over all the sins of a Republican administration, but that's about as unlikely as a dodo hatching from a duck egg.) But then add ignorance, lack of curiosity, and general laziness. Such is the state of our "fourth estate."


What does this have anything to do with what's happening in Kansas ? Nowhere did I claim that the media in this country slants in one direction politically ? That's usually a right wing meme.
And nowhere have I said Vox is somehow to be considered gospel truth.
Dude, are you OK. You're moving off on strange tangents.


I've noticed that happens when Fox folks don't have a response to a valid point. They just tend to wander off into other topics like nothing happened.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
I've noticed that happens when Fox folks don't have a response to a valid point. They just tend to wander off into other topics like nothing happened.


Cute, man. And exactly what your comrades expect. However, I don't watch Fox News, listen to Fox News, or visit any Fox News website.


And you behave just like those people, only moreso, so I will infer that it is a standard moralistic reactionary response, and you are simply farther towards the edge of the PH scale than the folks I have to put up with at work.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
and you are simply farther towards the edge of the PH scale than the folks I have to put up with at work.


My pH is about 4.5. Extremely acidic.


I dunno, you have some pretty Base arguments.

*rimshot*
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Rost
United States
Fort Wayne
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
and you are simply farther towards the edge of the PH scale than the folks I have to put up with at work.


My pH is about 4.5. Extremely acidic.


I was at a 6.2

Thankfully, my doctor said Mylanta.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
I've noticed that happens when Fox folks don't have a response to a valid point. They just tend to wander off into other topics like nothing happened.


Cute, man. And exactly what your comrades expect. However, I don't watch Fox News, listen to Fox News, or visit any Fox News website.


I know... you can't trust the mainstream media, amirite?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
It's hard to say with so much partisan noise.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/01/27/what-fox-wont-te...


Complaining about partisan noise while linking to the noisiest partisans on the planet. shake

Quote:
Walker's state is 28th in job creation.


Not bad. Last month RSP insisted that Wisconsin was 35th. I guess June was good!

EDIT: and last year, RSP was quite happy about this.


There's a difference between complaining and recognizing.

Perhaps I should have had a matching quote from Fox for a fair and unbiased post?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
I've noticed that happens when Fox folks don't have a response to a valid point. They just tend to wander off into other topics like nothing happened.


Cute, man. And exactly what your comrades expect. However, I don't watch Fox News, listen to Fox News, or visit any Fox News website.


This is true. Drew has quoted the Washington Post and various web sites such as RealClearPolitics and Salon but apparently never Fox.

Of course, quoting Fox usually goes about as well as quoting the Daily Mail so that's a good thing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Junior McSpiffy
United States
Riverton
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
And speaking of the Washington Post . . .

Vox.com refuses to correct Max Fisher’s error re Hebron

Vox is a silly website run by ignorant children. Who cannot admit when they are wrong.

Perhaps because their goal is to mislead.


You speak with the certainty of someone who doesn't think some of the websites favoring their viewpoint are of very similar same quality.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
I've noticed that happens when Fox folks don't have a response to a valid point. They just tend to wander off into other topics like nothing happened.


Cute, man. And exactly what your comrades expect. However, I don't watch Fox News, listen to Fox News, or visit any Fox News website.


I totally didn't just thumb your post for its exceptional brazenness.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.