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Subject: GBoH status marker solutions? rss

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Jacob
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I've only recently begun to plunge into the dark depths of hexy-county, and though the seemingly abundant treads about defining "wargame" are a tad repellent, I figure getting active in the forums is getting to be a must...and since I have a (hopefully somewhat) relevant topic, now's a good a time as any.

So I've been really enjoying Ran for the past month or so but messing with all the status markers is getting just a lil tedious. I have some sort of concept in my head for engagement markers made of red plastic in a thin line shape to more clearly identify which units are engaged to which instead of the general pile it tends to be now.

I'm not really interested in SGBoH, but I am looking to get more games in the series so I'd be interested to know any alternatives/solutions/mods anyone has come up with to make status tracking less fiddly/time consuming.
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Rex Stites
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goodpoints wrote:
I've only recently begun to plunge into the dark depths of hexy-county, and though the seemingly abundant treads about defining "wargame" are a tad repellent, I figure getting active in the forums is getting to be a must...and since I have a (hopefully somewhat) relevant topic, now's a good a time as any.

So I've been really enjoying Ran for the past month or so but messing with all the status markers is getting just a lil tedious. I have some sort of concept in my head for engagement markers made of red plastic in a thin line shape to more clearly identify which units are engaged to which instead of the general pile it tends to be now.

I'm not really interested in SGBoH, but I am looking to get more games in the series so I'd be interested to know any alternatives/solutions/mods anyone has come up with to make status tracking less fiddly/time consuming.


VASSAL might be your best option.
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Richard Hellsten
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I know that some players use tile spacers (little plastic X's). They could be exactly what you want.

I haven't found a huge need for the engaged markers so far but I can appreciate their use in bigger or multi-session games,
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Jacob
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RAVENBURG wrote:
I know that some players use tile spacers (little plastic X's). They could be exactly what you want.

I haven't found a huge need for the engaged markers so far but I can appreciate their use in bigger or multi-session games,


Yeah I'm going back and forth between marking engagement vs. just marking adjacent units NOT in engagement (advance after retreat) since adjacent enemies tend to be engaged

The thing I seem to miss most though is the defender TQ check on initial shock, but the "Shock no Check TQ" counters irk me. But hopefully that will just become habit as I play more.

I might have to try tile spacers though, I think I would cut some into lines and some with one branch cut to deal with different numbers of engaged units. Honestly I think I would've been pretty content if the status counters were just a smaller size than the units (a la Glory) so you could just plop cohesion hits on top without covering unit stats. Wow I just thought of using red mini dice, that might work quite well.
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Michail Potemkin
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I was thinking about red arrows printed on paper, than laminated and cut out...
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Erik Syvertsen
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goodpoints wrote:
... to more clearly identify which units are engaged to which instead of the general pile it tends to be now.


I don't know if Ran is different, but the engagement rules in Hoplite came into question a while ago in this thread: Engaged status , where it was finally determined that units are simply engaged or not engaged. There's no need to keep track of which units they're engaged to, as they can be reassigned from turn to turn.
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Tobrukker
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goodpoints wrote:
I've only recently begun to plunge into the dark depths of hexy-county, and though the seemingly abundant treads about defining "wargame" are a tad repellent,


Good reason to avoid them. I do.

Must/No TQ check markers- I only use them when there's a mix of combats of each type. If its all one type, no need for me. They're a mnemonic device, so just use them when you need to.

I've not played a GBOH game where the Engaged rule is not an option, so haven't played with it. Not sure I will, even in games where its standard. I see little simulative value so far, for a lot of fiddliness.

Tile spacers (the really small ones) are nice, you can usually see the TQ # and unit type with them on top. I've painted mine, with acrylic, different colors for different statuses. You can then use them with other systems/games as well.

For Cohesion hits cut craft foamies into half inch squares, designating a different color for each number. That way you can place them under the unit and see how many hits a unit has without picking it up.
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Jacob
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paradoxes wrote:


I don't know if Ran is different, but the engagement rules in Hoplite came into question a while ago in this thread: Engaged status , where it was finally determined that units are simply engaged or not engaged. There's no need to keep track of which units they're engaged to, as they can be reassigned from turn to turn.


Ah jeez time for another brainache. I had trouble deciding this as well, unfortunately there's really only one thread specific to Ran about this question (one person concludes A is engaged to B+C, B to A, C to A, etc.) I thought I remembered coming across a SPQR thread that arrived at the same conclusion that engagement is between specific units, but I can't seem to find it,, but it could've been related to something like determining positional superiority with multiple attackers or something like that.

To me though the Ran rules seem to suggest engagement is unit specific:

"7.31 At the conclusion of any Shock Resolution in which any opposing
units are still adjacent and have not moved (i. e. did not
advance or retreat), place an “Engaged” marker atop those units." (AN "Engaged marker" atop THOSE units)

"7.33 Kibamusha Engaged with infantry may move away without
Withdrawing; they simple use Movement mechanics.
7.34 The “Engaged” marker is removed the instant the units become
separated." (KB are Engaged WITH infantry)

I have not played Hoplite but perhaps the difference is meant to reflect line formations more than the more flexible formations depicted in Ran. The rules seem to place a lot of importance on flanking specific units (Positional Superiority) which seems to tie in with the mechanic of engaged units being "locked" into combat with specific units, as engaged infantry can't change facing.

marque du lion wrote:


Must/No TQ check markers- I only use them when there's a mix of combats of each type. If its all one type, no need for me. They're a mnemonic device, so just use them when you need to.

I've not played a GBOH game where the Engaged rule is not an option, so haven't played with it. Not sure I will, even in games where its standard. I see little simulative value so far, for a lot of fiddliness.

Tile spacers (the really small ones) are nice, you can usually see the TQ # and unit type with them on top. I've painted mine, with acrylic, different colors for different statuses. You can then use them with other systems/games as well.

For Cohesion hits cut craft foamies into half inch squares, designating a different color for each number. That way you can place them under the unit and see how many hits a unit has without picking it up.


I'm curious how you use the MUST TQ CHECK markers, I've only played Ran so far so I've been thinking they might just be baggage from other series games. In Ran, the only times during shock combat a TQ check is made is: 1)by the defender upon initial shock combat for cohesion hits 2)engaged Disrupted units to see if they can shock (Disruption normally forbids Shock, unless they are already engaged). I find that I just remember that any attacker that's disrupted needs to do a TQ check.

As far as the merits of the Engagement rules, they seem pretty necessary in Ran. Gunners (Teppo/Arabesques) play a very significant role(unique within GBoH other than Samurai, no?) Engaged units inability to fire/be fired upon simulates the inability to fire volleys at enemy troops in melee combat with friendlies. This restriction prompts a lot of maneuvering challenges/risks with your gunner units after melee units advance past them (very fragile/slow units so risky to try and move them to the flanks)

I like the idea of color coded cohesion hits though, though I would like something to go on top of the units to eliminate about 90% of the tweeze-work. Right now I'm either thinking mini dice (drawback with hits over 6 though) or color-coded beads.
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Erik Syvertsen
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The engaged situation in Hoplite still nags at me a bit; I'd actually prefer it if units were engaged with specific enemy units. I see what you mean about the language of the rulebook in Ran - in Hoplite it actually says to place an engaged counter on each unit, so there is a difference.

As far as the "must check TQ" counters, IIRC (I've only played one scenario so far), they are used in Hoplite for when a unit hasn't moved adjacent to an enemy, but has stayed adjacent to one and therefore MAY shock but must check TQ.
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