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Subject: Why this game is so underrated? rss

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Salva Picot
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Hello,
I have the impression that Carrara is one of the most underrated Kramer's games at the Geek, even one of the most unplayed, and I don't have a clear idea why.
Compaired with the Top familiar game ( 7 Wonders, a game that I really love) both games are really simple to teach, the flavour and illustrations are awesome and both are really quick games ( compared with other AP Euro style games A.K.A Agricola, IMO ) but the rating difference between them is...abyssal.
Anyone have the same thoughts about it?
Any analisis that make me understand how this game can't be in the top....150?
Greetings
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Fernando Robert Yu
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I think it's because there was only 1 English printing by Zman, which makes it OOP in the US...
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Ben O'Steen
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freddieyu wrote:
I think it's because there was only 1 English printing by Zman, which makes it OOP in the US...


Agreed. I managed to get one of the English copies but I understand that they are hard to get. It's a really tremendous game, with a lot more to it than an initial glance would tell you. The game kicks in once you add in the goodies in the white envelope (extra objectives, tiles and advanced rules) and once you get a handle on it, they should never be taken out!
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Kris Ardianto
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Aside from it's hard to get. I think the game shared mix feeling.
I played the game few times. It's a simple game with interesting scoring mechanic. But some of my friends dislike one of the game end conditions, where players can declare the game end freely (after they complete the requirement of course).
This make the players need to keep an eye for their opponents and it's not a nice feel to keep during the game. And the game also has similar behaviour, when on early game players compete to get bricks until the wheel is empty (or at least almost empty) and then build. It's pretty much easy to guess IMO.
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Fernando Robert Yu
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Bannoran wrote:
vardamir wrote:
Aside from it's hard to get. I think the game shared mix feeling.
I played the game few times. It's a simple game with interesting scoring mechanic. But some of my friends dislike one of the game end conditions, where players can declare the game end freely (after they complete the requirement of course).
This make the players need to keep an eye for their opponents and it's not a nice feel to keep during the game. And the game also has similar behaviour, when on early game players compete to get bricks until the wheel is empty (or at least almost empty) and then build. It's pretty much easy to guess IMO.


Yes the game can end suddenly and you do have to keep an eye out for that. I don't think that's a big problem. I don't understand what you mean by the wheel becoming empty ? The wheel gets refilled to 11 bricks unless you choose not to turn it.


he is talking about hoarding the bricks until there is nothing left to refill..for me that is fine if they do that, since that means I get to be the first to build the 8 brick buildings and thus be the first to get the advanced scoring tiles...

And keeping an eye on your opponent is OK, but remember many of their stuff lies hidden behind their screens. Still, at least there is some interaction instead of none, and the fact that someone can end the game means you MUST be on your toes instead of lying back and relaxing...that mechanic gives the game much needed tension and a "race" feel, otherwise it will be boring.
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Salva Picot
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As I see, maybe the issue is a lack of clear target player.
For the coments above the hard-gamers maybe don't like the " press your play " feeling with the end-game rules. IMO, this feeling it's what makes the game appealing to everyone and takes some distance from the classic "make your engine work" games.
I plan to writte a glorifying review, will post when done.
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Jay Sachs
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HunterRose wrote:
As I see, maybe the issue is a lack of clear target player.
For the coments above the hard-gamers maybe don't like the " press your play " feeling with the end-game rules. IMO, this feeling it's what makes the game appealing to everyone and takes some distance from the classic "make your engine work" games.
I plan to writte a glorifying review, will post when done.


Well, those of us who have an English Z-Man edition and are considering selling it would welcome such a marketing scheme review.
 
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Salva Picot
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jaysachs wrote:
HunterRose wrote:
As I see, maybe the issue is a lack of clear target player.
For the coments above the hard-gamers maybe don't like the " press your play " feeling with the end-game rules. IMO, this feeling it's what makes the game appealing to everyone and takes some distance from the classic "make your engine work" games.
I plan to writte a glorifying review, will post when done.


Well, those of us who have an English Z-Man edition and are considering selling it would welcome such a marketing scheme review.

Hehehehe
I must supose you din't liked the game?
 
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brian
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freddieyu wrote:
I think it's because there was only 1 English printing by Zman, which makes it OOP in the US...

Agreed. It was on my radar (and still is) but whenever I went to make large purchases it wasn't available and so gets left behind.
 
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Jay Sachs
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HunterRose wrote:
jaysachs wrote:
HunterRose wrote:
As I see, maybe the issue is a lack of clear target player.
For the coments above the hard-gamers maybe don't like the " press your play " feeling with the end-game rules. IMO, this feeling it's what makes the game appealing to everyone and takes some distance from the classic "make your engine work" games.
I plan to writte a glorifying review, will post when done.


Well, those of us who have an English Z-Man edition and are considering selling it would welcome such a marketing scheme review.

Hehehehe
I must supose you din't liked the game?


Actually I do like it. It's just hard to get to the table. Heavier gamers seems to not see value, and haven't (yet) gotten my family to try it.

I think a key thing is that for an experienced group, crack open the envelope immediately, don't pay attention to the warnings in the rulebook about the advanced game.
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Fernando Robert Yu
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jaysachs wrote:
HunterRose wrote:
jaysachs wrote:
HunterRose wrote:
As I see, maybe the issue is a lack of clear target player.
For the coments above the hard-gamers maybe don't like the " press your play " feeling with the end-game rules. IMO, this feeling it's what makes the game appealing to everyone and takes some distance from the classic "make your engine work" games.
I plan to writte a glorifying review, will post when done.


Well, those of us who have an English Z-Man edition and are considering selling it would welcome such a marketing scheme review.

Hehehehe
I must supose you din't liked the game?


Actually I do like it. It's just hard to get to the table. Heavier gamers seems to not see value, and haven't (yet) gotten my family to try it.

I think a key thing is that for an experienced group, crack open the envelope immediately, don't pay attention to the warnings in the rulebook about the advanced game.


Yeah screw the warning..I just went straight to the advanced game immediately as well!
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Evgeni Liakhovich
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freddieyu wrote:
jaysachs wrote:
HunterRose wrote:
jaysachs wrote:
HunterRose wrote:
As I see, maybe the issue is a lack of clear target player.
For the coments above the hard-gamers maybe don't like the " press your play " feeling with the end-game rules. IMO, this feeling it's what makes the game appealing to everyone and takes some distance from the classic "make your engine work" games.
I plan to writte a glorifying review, will post when done.


Well, those of us who have an English Z-Man edition and are considering selling it would welcome such a marketing scheme review.

Hehehehe
I must supose you din't liked the game?


Actually I do like it. It's just hard to get to the table. Heavier gamers seems to not see value, and haven't (yet) gotten my family to try it.

I think a key thing is that for an experienced group, crack open the envelope immediately, don't pay attention to the warnings in the rulebook about the advanced game.


Yeah screw the warning..I just went straight to the advanced game immediately as well!


I was able to buy Palaces from a local gamer couple month ago for a very reasonable price. He said he played it with his family once and they all thought it was Meh. The envelope wasn't open. When I read the rules, I could tell the basic game would fall flat, so I decided to go straight to the advanced game as well. Best decision made that day

This envelope thing, plus small print run, plus generic look of the game, plus oversaturated market are some of the reasons why Palaces is underrated.
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Destrio Dai
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I'm trying to find a copy, English or German, so I can play it and add a high rating to BGG myself. Looks fun and would work well for those looking for a medium weight euro rondel game. Too bad the print run was so small...
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Francesco Del Vivo
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I can not decide between Carrara or Coal Baron. Which do you think is the best choice, for a group of usual gamers?
Thanks.
Francesco.
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Salva Picot
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francescodv wrote:
I can not decide between Carrara or Coal Baron. Which do you think is the best choice, for a group of usual gamers?
Thanks.
Francesco.

Both games are great. And I think that any usual gamer will enjoy them. May Coal Baron is more eye-appealing for his multiple game components, but in the end is anothert woker placement game with a twist, as Carrara is another tile collection game with a twist.
Maybe I love both equal, in the end the choice depends of what mechanic do your group preffer.
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Salva Picot
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You can find a german version in amazon.de
I think the problem are the shipping prize
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Christopher Dearlove
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francescodv wrote:
I can not decide between Carrara or Coal Baron. Which do you think is the best choice, for a group of usual gamers?


I decided (after buying) that Coal Baron was OK but nothing special. But it was Russian Railroads that provided the contrast. Carrara (full game) would be between those two.
 
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Evan Dunn
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For me the K&K order of preference is:

The Palaces of Carrara
Cavum
Maharaja: The Game of Palace Building in India
Coal Baron
Tikal
Nauticus
Mexica
Torres
Australia

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P B
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These days, simple dice-rolling games with funny cartoons like King of Tokyo and Smash Up capture more interest than solid quality game design such this gem.
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Arthur Cormode
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Kimball Bent wrote:
These days, simple dice-rolling games with funny cartoons like King of Tokyo and Smash Up capture more interest than solid quality game design such this gem.


Sad but true.
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HunterRose wrote:
You can find a german version in amazon.de
I think the problem are the shipping prize


I just imported a few copies to the US from amazon.de for a total (including GlobalShipping) of $43.99. That's the brand new game plus international shipping. This game is worth a bit more than that, as well! It can easily be found, but if people are only checking their local gaming store, well, then they're going to have a hard time finding it :-)

The game is sold on amazon.de for 16,99Euro. Now that's a steal!
 
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