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Subject: [DECK] Fasteki rss

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Peter Hopkins
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Hello all! Cross posting this from /r/Netrunner for input here too

I'm getting anxious waiting for Upstalk to arrive; I've got an NBN deck featuring Near Earth Hub all planned and ready to go, I'm just waiting for the cards! In the mean time, I thought I would amuse myself by making a Jinteki Fast Advance deck. It's something a bit different, innit.

I didn't want to go for the Trick of Light deck, I've seen a few fast advance decks that run that and use traps as banks for counters... I always thought you might leave yourself vulnerable if you face an aggressive runner who runs on your banks (or if they figure what you're doing after the first agenda!).

I had previously looked at SanSan and thought about how great it could work with Medical Breakthrough, so I thought I would give it a shot in the deck. The basic idea was to lay down a Medical Breakthrough on a SanSan and force the runner into stealing it or letting me score; from that point, with SanSan, Medical Breakthrough, Braintrust, and the Entanglement can all be scored from hand. The third breakthrough doesn't even need the SanSan.

As I was running all 2 point agendas, I thought it would make sense to run it out of Medtech, the smaller deck size helps me draw to the Agendas quickly, as do the 3 Jacksons (they also help shuffle the SanSans back in, as they're pretty vital to the plan).

I need burst econ to be able to afford to rez SanSan and score in a turn, so I went with Hedge Funds and the (kinda weird) Medical Research Fundraiser, with Mental Health Clinics for some steady income. Interns also helps bring back SanSan and possibly an Agenda if I need it, and Shi.Kyu is kind of a no-brainer as it forces the Runner to get an extra agenda after hitting one.

So, those were the easy bits. I'm so used to Corping as NBN (sometimes HB) I can't seem to build an ICE suite for anyone else. I ran this deck a few times last night, won two games and lost two (though close, still losses). It was a fun deck to play, though, and I think there's more to be done to make it a bit better. I just didn't seem to have quite enough to keep the runner out consistently or make them spend enough money to force those scoring windows open. When I play NBN, making them hit a Tollbooth or using Ash is often enough to set them enough back on money you can get an Agenda through, but as I'm all out of Influence I need to rely on in faction cards to do this! I also had a few econ problems (though this was because my canny opponent kept on Siphoning me ).

Anyone got any ideas?

Jinteki Fast Advance (44 cards)

Harmony Medtech: Biomedical Pioneer

Agenda (9)
3 Braintrust
3 Medical Breakthrough
2 NAPD Contract
1 Philotic Entanglement

Asset (8)
3 Jackson Howard •••
3 Mental Health Clinic
2 Shi.Kyu

Upgrade (3)
3 SanSan City Grid ••••• ••••

Operation (8)
3 Hedge Fund
2 Interns
3 Medical Research Fundraiser

Barrier (5)
2 Himitsu-Bako
3 Wall of Static

Code Gate (6)
2 Enigma
2 Inazuma
2 Yagura

Sentry (5)
2 Draco
2 Guard
1 Swordsman

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/

(side note: as a happy coincidence, I think I ended up with all the Medical cards in one deck, as well as the Interns! Bonus points if you can think of a cool medical sounding deck name.)
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Mike Nunes
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Just a quick couple of thoughts.

Take out medical research for celebrity gift. Way better burst economy, especially after over drawing with JH.

Inazuma is only good if you have them hit other ice that will hurt/kill the runners. Switch that for lotus fields when it comes out.

I'd switch wall of Static with bastion. More taxing.

Also, I'd drop draco for something else. You don't want to focus on pouring money into traces. I'd go with pup.

It's a solid idea. It's a lot better then my deck was when H&P came out.
 
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Mark Campo
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same inazuma, does not seem worth it, maybe chimera.
not sure about gifts in this one as it will show your hand.. i like gifts to show snares and traps or nasty ice about to go down to be worth while other wise your broad casting run me..
not sure about the 2 traps either

Inazuma and the 2 traps id reconsider,
not much to protect from siphon or a recovery
 
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Daniel Wray
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Shi.Kyu is a solid trap for Harmony. Keep it. Like you mention, it changes the math for the game in your favor.

You largest room to play with is your ICE. I'd keep one Inazuma, but add something painful like Komainu or Neural Katana. Pup is a good suggestion.

I feel like some more of the painful Jinteki threats could help slow the opponent down in your favor. Fetal AI's potentially swap in for the NAPDs, and you could squeeze a couple of Snare's in for a healthy threat (they can also work to protect San Sans until you get an agenda).

People will treat your ID like you have standard Jinteki threats until they get to know it, so your mileage on that alone will vary.
 
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Peter Hopkins
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Good ideas everyone. Had some chat on this over on Reddit... If anything, I know have TOO MANY ideas as to what to change!

A trap or two to protect SanSan sounds like a great idea, I was considering playing never advance style and using the MHCs to bait the scoring server and maybe open a scoring window. Snare! would be ideal, just a case of finding the room... I've always got Interns to bring back either the Snare! *or* the SanSan.

2 Komainus have gone in, though the rest of the ICE is relatively cheap; 2 Bastions at 4, one Swordsman at 3, everything else is 0, 1 or 2. Celeb Gifts are also in, I like it because they actually match my 'theme' of Harmony Medtech cutting edge bio-research very well

Good call on the NAPDs swapped for Fetal, actually... I found I didn't really want to score them, they only work as a tax on the runner. If I'm not scoring them anyway, I might as well not score an agenda that does some damage I did find when playing that people were hesitant at first running as they weren't sure what they would hit. There were some raised eyebrows when I rezzed a SanSan to be sure.

Lotus Field would fit in well... Only issue is that I built this deck to tide me over until Upstalk when I wanted to go back to NBN!
 
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Sean Trundle
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Definitely run Gift over Fundraiser. Half of SanSan's awesomeness is the huge econ drain for the runner to trash it; Fundraiser mitigates that in a major way.

All the ETR ice makes it look like you're trying to play this like AstroBiotics, but you're in a bit of a different situation here. The beauty of AstroBiotics is that it squeezes out a single Astro through any means possible and then doesn't ever need another remote. Apart from the final Medical Research, you have to keep a SanSan on the table. So I'd suggest less cheap ETR ice and more cheap taxing ice. Pup is a Jinteki superstar in that arena.
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Daniel Wray
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I know the Fetals are not necessarily intended to be scored, but they can be used in interesting ways.

Say you have a Fetal in hand and a rezzed San San. IAA the Fetal and sit back. If the Runner pushes to get the agenda, they take the damage and potentially can't steal the agenda and trash the San San at the same time. If they pass on stealing the agenda, AA next turn to score it. If they steal it and/or trash the San San, you probably have a scoring window open up from the combined damage and cost.

NAPD also does this well, but doesn't come with the added threat to your R&D and HQ.
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Peter Hopkins
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I like the sound of the tricks I can play with Fetal AI, so a couple of them have gone in to replace the NAPDs.

I do like the sound of Pups and other cheap taxing ICE (I guess Eli would fall into this category too?), though I've now run out of space I will swap them in first. Chimera has gone in as on a remote it's a great way of scoring agendas before the runner has a full suite out.

I need to cut the Fundraisers, but I'm a bit too in love with the theme of all the medical cards I'll take them out soon, honest guv.

Here's my updated deck list:

Jinteki Fast Advance (44 cards)

Harmony Medtech: Biomedical Pioneer

Agenda (9)
3 Braintrust
2 Fetal AI
3 Medical Breakthrough
1 Philotic Entanglement

Asset (8)
3 Jackson Howard •••
3 Mental Health Clinic
2 Shi.Kyu

Upgrade (3)
3 SanSan City Grid ••••• ••••

Operation (9)
2 Celebrity Gift
3 Hedge Fund
2 Interns
2 Medical Research Fundraiser

Barrier (6)
2 Bastion
2 Himitsu-Bako
2 Paper Wall

Code Gate (4)
2 Chum
2 Quandary

Sentry (3)
2 Komainu
1 Swordsman

ICE (2)
2 Chimera

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/
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Joey Schulte
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I'd highly recommend fitting in a fast track or two to get your last 2 Medical Breakthroughs when you want them.
 
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J Ro
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I feel Fetal AI is a bit weak in this deck, I can understand Philotic Entanglement is mostly for the 3/2 agenda but Fetal AI is 5/2 and gets in the way of Fast Advance. I get it, you want it for some kind of Ambush and access tax, but with only 9 agendas in the deck, -2 Fetal AI, you are looking to try to "fast advance" only 7 others. Plus you're also not running Personal Evolution, making Fetal AI a little less taxing and only 5 other net damage cards (3 are ice, which can be broken), gives Fetal AI even less bite. Probably better off running 2 Nisei MK II or even 3 Clone Retirement + 1 False Lead/Unorthodox Prediction or something like that. (Considering the 4 1-point agendas will also give Philotic Entangelement a little more edge too while giving you fast points).

Personally I think you are trying too much with this deck and spreading the deck thin a little bit. You want fast advance but carry around Glacial and Ambush elements in the deck when you should be focusing on fast advanced a bit more and remove the Ambush elements completely for more Fast Advance things.

I also agree with Celebrity Gift over Medical Breakthrough, makes trashing SanSan harder and also if you remove the Ambush elements out of your deck, you will have a little less to hide.

EDIT: I personally think you were fine with NAPD in there already, the agenda defends itself better than Fetal AI, making it a little easier to score.
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Peter Hopkins
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I may well go back to the NAPDs actually, completely undecided at the moment. Thank you for the other tips...

Though I'm not sure what you mean about glacier and ambush elements? I only have two traps, Shi.Kyu because they got perfectly into Harmony Medtech, and there is no ice that costs more than 5, and most costs less than 3. Not aiming for anything glacier-like at all!
 
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J Ro
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Medical Health Clinic, Interns, maybe Medical Health Fundraiser and NAPD Contract were the glacier elements to me, I only realized a little later you swapped them out for the Fetal AI. And I thought it woudn't be too bad to combine some parts of Jinteki's version of Glacier into a Faster Advancing deck, figured maybe this was the intention when you first started with NAPD. Speaking of Glacier Elements, why not Caprice Nisei and/or Ash?
 
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Daniel Wray
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Quote:
EDIT: I personally think you were fine with NAPD in there already, the agenda defends itself better than Fetal AI, making it a little easier to score.


Fetal AI versus NAPD is a toss-up. Neither can be scored in a single turn since the deck lacks Biotic Labor, so the advancement cost difference is negligible. Both are taxing, but in different ways. Two credits and two net damage versus four credits is debatable.

However, Jenteki's edge as a faction is the wide variety of hazards that could be included. I feel like if you don't have a handful of those threats in your deck, you aren't playing to the faction strength. Fear of those cards will keep Runners at bay for a while, but what happens once they are more familiar with your deck? What happens to a Weyland deck that doesn't run meat damage? After a while, Runners lose their healthy respect and speed up their play.

I'm not saying you can't have a successful Jinteki deck without a net damage threat, but it will end up playing like a different faction. I like the idea of making a FA deck that is distinctly Jinteki, not just "throw all the FA tricks into this ID and go with it."

I think Fetal and Snare combined with Shi.Kyu would give this deck the bite it needs to slow down the Runner while setting up for the FA plays.
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J Ro
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I don't regard Fetal AI and NAPD as a toss up in the state the deck is currently at. NAPD requiring 1 less advancement token already puts it ahead in terms of Fast Advance albeit,yes you have to score both in two turns, but the 1 click, not required of NAPD can be spent to do other things which can help smooth out a deck further that lacks a lot of the traditional fast advance tools. NAPD also defends itself much better with a 4 credit tax over a 2 card and 2 credit tax, Fetal AI works great when you can force the runner to stack 4-5 cards before running, but with this setup, I can get by on 2-3 fairly easily.

I can see your point in playing to a faction's strength but you don't have to play to ALL of a faction's strength at one time, otherwise Jinteki Glacial decks wouldn't be a thing and those generally carry little to none net damage cards depending on the variation but these decks still manage to play to their faction's strength. We can already concede that he has thrown net damage a bit on the way side just by not picking Personal Evolution as his identity.

I think without any ambushes like Snares, Shi.Kyu, Fetal AI etc, as Jinteki fast advance deck can still do well given tools like Caprice Nisei, Pups, Susanoo, Inazuma, Nisei Mk II etc. and still be playing to Jinteki's strengths (and in not saying he should do without any of those ambushes listed above, I just don't find them THAT necessary in a deck like this).
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Peter Hopkins
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I honestly didn't anticipate this level of discussion... I've hardly played Jinteki since I started, and the inspiration for the deck was not much more than putting together SanSan, Harmony Medtech and Medical Breakthrough.

At the back of my mind was relying on Jinteki's reputation to help protect those unscored agendas and unrezzed SanSans. To an extent you can rely on the threat of traps and snares without including them and gain an advantage by using those deck slots on other things.

I need to do some more experimenting with this deck to see what works and what doesn't... I'm happy at the moment just trying the new ice suite I've got, but I'm now keen to mix up afterwards and see how it works with a small scattering of traps in to give the runner pause for thought. As mentioned, snare would work very well to protect servers with SanSans in as I wait for the agenda/money to score.
 
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Brodie
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unitled wrote:
At the back of my mind was relying on Jinteki's reputation to help protect those unscored agendas and unrezzed SanSans. To an extent you can rely on the threat of traps and snares without including them and gain an advantage by using those deck slots on other things.


I always feel like I have to speak up against this idea (sorry!). This assumes that you won't play somebody twice with your deck, which seems like a really poor assumption to me. Even in a tournament it's not uncommon to face an opponent a second time after the cut to elimination. It's fine to benefit from a boost if your opponent expects lots of net damage shenanigans and tries to play around them, but if your playstyle is significantly weaker against someone who knows you aren't running traps and Snare!s and such, I think you're gonna have a bad time.

Ultimately I think it's a good idea in Jinteki to always devote 2 card slots to traps that tie in with your deck's main strength, because that means you can still use that threat against someone who knows your entire deck list. That, or don't run traps at all -- my Tennin Institute deck doesn't! -- and just play accordingly. I think it's only a bad idea when you don't run any traps, but play like you do.
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J Ro
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I would like to add, in general never play any game in hopes that your opponent WON'T do something because more likely than not, if that player is decent because more likely than not that player would do it what you hoped he didn't do if that makes sense and usually it ends up burning people in general. The risk usually doesn't justify the reward. Your identity alone gives the opponent an idea on how to play against the deck just because it isn't Personal Evolution and makes at the very least 1 card safer to make runs.

Another consideration in using Ambush cards in a non-flat line deck would be what those cards could have been if they weren't ambushes and how much those cards could of helped you in your primary strategy compared to what a few ambush cards currently are doing for you. I guess its my complicated way of pointing out whether or not it is better to do a bunch of things at an average level or be really great at one thing.
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Peter Hopkins
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Thanks again, just to clarify, I'm not saying I was *right* thinking like that! I agree, relying on your opponent acting a certain way is a great way to win well against players that do, and be left utterly helpless if they don't. Plus, of course, the effectiveness of the deck drops considerably if you play against the same person more than once.

I've decided to sneak a couple of traps in there and see how it works out... I don't think I've ever played a deck with Fetal AI in it, so I'm sticking with that FOR NOW for the experience, I suspect I will be switching back to NAPD at some point soon; I think the slightly larger money hit is better than the combined Net/Money damage from Fetal AI.

Also, games night tonight, so finally get a chance to do some more testing
 
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