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Subject: To sleeve or not to sleeve, that is the question. rss

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Chris Hannemann
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In the forums for Dominion I see a lot of talk of sleeving cards and reboxing the sets. Questions like "Which is the best sleeve", "will they fit in the box"...

When I do the math buying sleeves does not make sense. I paid $29 for the game and the premium sleeves are $5.91 for 50 sleeves. Since there are 500 cards, I could buy a new game for less than the cost of the sleeves.

Am I looking in the wrong place to buy sleeves? Am I missing something?
 
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Ben Kyo
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You are looking at sleeves that are too expensive, and you have access to the game more cheaply than many.

Aside from financial considerations, some cards are going to get a lot more wear and tear than others, so sleeves are a good way to stop those cards from standing out from other cards once in your deck.

I'm not a big fan of sleeving, and only have two sleeved games out of 20, but deckbuilding games seem like they benefit from sleeving more than most.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Yes and Yes. Sleeves that work fine for this game can be purchased for about a penny a sleeve. The second part is how long do you want to play Dominion vs. how long do you think Rio will keep printing it? With sleeves you can likely play it indefinitely without fear of it going out of print. You see it all the time in this industry where older games, even very popular ones, go out of print, often for significant periods of time.
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Chris
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Dominion doesn't need sleeving. As there are so many cards and so much potential variety, the cards won't get the wear and tear that another game could. Star realms would be a good example of a Deck Builder that IS worth sleeving, as there are so few cards in the game so 1) each card would most liekly be used more frequently and 2) the physically small nature of the game lends itself to being grabbed off a shelf as you walk out the door to the pub and generally mistreated.
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steve perkins
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If you've only got Dominion and you play it regulary, then it's probably worth while investing in the sleeves, so you can still be playing in 20 years time.

However, if like me you've got all (or even some of) the expansions, then you are unlikely to be using the kingdom cards that often to make it worth while and of course there is a lot more than 500 cards to sleeve if you include the expansions.

My solution was to buy the base cards replacement set, as these are the most used cards. At least you then have 2 (or 3 with Dominion Intrique) sets of base cards to alternate the use of.

You can of course buy a new Dominion set in maybe 5- 10 years time, for roughly the same price as the sleeves. There may even be a 10th anniversary Dominion as that seems to be the current theme.

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Fernando Robert Yu
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I use penny sleeves...dirt cheap but gets the job done...
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Kevin C.
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Quote:
I use penny sleeves...dirt cheap but gets the job done...


I've done the same.

For some people or groups, they won't work because the quality won't be up to snuff, but you can find out for $1 at Wal-Mart. Just buy an Ultra-Pro pack and try it out.

I buy them bulk on eBay, and they work out to about .65 a pack.

Good luck,

Kevin
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Ben O'Steen
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Dominion doesn't need sleeving. As there are so many cards and so much potential variety, the cards won't get the wear and tear that another game could. Star realms would be a good example of a Deck Builder that IS worth sleeving, as there are so few cards in the game so 1) each card would most liekly be used more frequently and 2) the physically small nature of the game lends itself to being grabbed off a shelf as you walk out the door to the pub and generally mistreated.


Agreed about Star realms but have to disagree about Dominion on that. My coppers and estates look like they have been gnawed on round the edges. Well, slightly gnawed anyway. However, I don't sleeve them as I've played it 2 player only and I've got Intrigue as well, so plenty of spare coppers and estates to replace the tired ones when needed.
 
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Markus
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Let's do a fun scenario exercise:

You play Dominion bazillion times over the next 10 years. At this point your set is absolutely unplayable in any way. It is also impossible to acquire a new set or to get excess cards from anywhere - the game has practically vanished from the face of the earth.

How likely is this scenario? I find it highly unlikely. First of all, very few of us even play any game over 100 times. You will most likely play it some at first and then forget about it, playing it a few times each year. Even if you do end up with bazillion plays, I can promise you that you will be able to get a new set 10 years into the future. And even in the worst case scenario that there really is no way to get the game anymore, you can always play one of the 10,000 other great games that have been released in the meanwhile.

So, I would vote no sleeving. Sleeves don't protect against fires and floods anyway, which in practice are almost as likely to destroy your game as "playing it a lot" is.
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Chris
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benosteen wrote:
Agreed about Star realms but have to disagree about Dominion on that. My coppers and estates look like they have been gnawed on round the edges. Well, slightly gnawed anyway. However, I don't sleeve them as I've played it 2 player only and I've got Intrigue as well, so plenty of spare coppers and estates to replace the tired ones when needed.
Sure, I see that. But so often sleeving is to keep things uniform and not giev info away when holding a hand of cards up. A dog eared copper or two won't be memorable or give anything interesting away that validates all those chuffing sleeves! I'm very sure that I've plenty of coppers i've never even physically seen!
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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DeePee wrote:
Let's do a fun scenario exercise:

You play Dominion bazillion times over the next 10 years. At this point your set is absolutely unplayable in any way. It is also impossible to acquire a new set or to get excess cards from anywhere - the game has practically vanished from the face of the earth.

How likely is this scenario? I find it highly unlikely. First of all, very few of us even play any game over 100 times. You will most likely play it some at first and then forget about it, playing it a few times each year. Even if you do end up with bazillion plays, I can promise you that you will be able to get a new set 10 years into the future. And even in the worst case scenario that there really is no way to get the game anymore, you can always play one of the 10,000 other great games that have been released in the meanwhile.

So, I would vote no sleeving. Sleeves don't protect against fires and floods anyway, which in practice are almost as likely to destroy your game as "playing it a lot" is.


Less than 100 plays are certainly necessary to show wear so I find your argument not very compelling in making a sleeving decision.
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Shawn George
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benosteen wrote:
Agreed about Star realms but have to disagree about Dominion on that. My coppers and estates look like they have been gnawed on round the edges. Well, slightly gnawed anyway. However, I don't sleeve them as I've played it 2 player only and I've got Intrigue as well, so plenty of spare coppers and estates to replace the tired ones when needed.


Your base cards are more likely to see heavy wear than any other card in the game, but fortunately, those cards are abundantly available in the Dominion: Base Cards set. You could buy a box or two of those for far less than what you would spend on sleeving a Dominion collection.

I'm also firmly in the "don't sleeve" camp. The added cost, weight, hassle, storage space, and inferior feel of the sleeved cards simply don't make it worth it. The only games I would ever sleeve are hidden role games where I can't afford for a card to get marked, like The Resistance, Coup, and Mascarade. If a Dominion card gets marked, it's hardly the end of the world.
 
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Matthew Cordeiro
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DeePee wrote:
Let's do a fun scenario exercise:

You play Dominion bazillion times over the next 10 years. At this point your set is absolutely unplayable in any way. It is also impossible to acquire a new set or to get excess cards from anywhere - the game has practically vanished from the face of the earth.

How likely is this scenario? I find it highly unlikely. First of all, very few of us even play any game over 100 times. You will most likely play it some at first and then forget about it, playing it a few times each year. Even if you do end up with bazillion plays, I can promise you that you will be able to get a new set 10 years into the future. And even in the worst case scenario that there really is no way to get the game anymore, you can always play one of the 10,000 other great games that have been released in the meanwhile.

So, I would vote no sleeving. Sleeves don't protect against fires and floods anyway, which in practice are almost as likely to destroy your game as "playing it a lot" is.


I respectfully disagree with some of the assumptions made in your scenario.

Quote:
First of all, very few of us even play any game over 100 times. You will most likely play it some at first and then forget about it, playing it a few times each year.

I must be part of the very few, as I have several games, Dominion included, that I've played over a hundred times. I've owned Dominion for 4 years, and it's still in the top ten most played games in my house. Another point to consider is that while lots of games use cards, Dominion cards are practically abused with the amount of shuffling, drawing, and playing involved. I began to see a minor amount of wear on my Dominion cards after a week of heavy play.

Quote:
I can promise you that you will be able to get a new set 10 years into the future.

Promise?! Dominion has been a big seller in the past 5 years, but 10 years from now? Who knows. I'm sure there will be plenty of used copies available, though.

Quote:
Sleeves don't protect against fires and floods anyway, which in practice are almost as likely to destroy your game as "playing it a lot" is.

I don't personally know anyone that's had a game ruined by flood or fire. I know plenty of people, myself included, that have had game components damaged from spilled drinks and normal wear and tear. Sleeves will protect your cards from those types of things.

I think you can make a strong case for and against sleeves. (Cost being the biggest reason against sleeving.) If it's a game you think will see a lot of play, sleeves provide peace of mind. They're not necessary, but I'm glad my 2,000+ Dominion cards are in like-new condition after hundreds of plays.
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James Newton
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Another factor is your gaming group.

I sleeved when I got my second expansion - because of the state of the basic treasure and victory cards. Not because of wear but because they were getting sticky, making them harder to shuffle and handle.

I often play with new / casual gamers, so there is no way that a "no food or drink at the table" rule is ever going to happen, and they aren't always the most careful with the cards - plus when I took Dominion on holiday and we were playing outside the state of the table was outside our control as well. With sleeves I can wipe the cards clean with a damp cloth - and the one time a drink got knocked over there was no problem.

As an added plus I find it easier to shuffle smaller number of cards with sleeves than without.

Also, my games supplier generally sells enough sleeves to do an expansion for about a fiver (about 20% the cost of the expansion, or not much more than the shipping cost).
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Trent Hamm
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Dominion doesn't need sleeving. As there are so many cards and so much potential variety, the cards won't get the wear and tear that another game could. Star realms would be a good example of a Deck Builder that IS worth sleeving, as there are so few cards in the game so 1) each card would most liekly be used more frequently and 2) the physically small nature of the game lends itself to being grabbed off a shelf as you walk out the door to the pub and generally mistreated.


The problem is uneven wear. The Province cards will begin to show wear FAR before the other cards do. It can quickly reach a point where you can identify the Province cards from the other cards just with a quick glance at the back of the cards. The Copper cards often begin to show wear after the Province cards.

The kingdom cards do tend to wear evenly compared to each other, but with an unsleeved set after twenty or so plays, you can easily tell the Province cards, the Copper cards, and other cards from just a glance at the back of the cards. Even if you're trying not to look, it's pretty hard not to notice it.

That's why I sleeve my cards - uneven wear.
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Biodiesel
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Sleeving makes it easier to shuffle, in my opinion. And treasures and victory cards start showing wear very quickly compared to kingdom cards.
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Sandy Wilson
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Wear on the base cards would be my primary reason for sleeving, however not the only reason. The cards in the copy of Dominion in my local gaming cafe can be lifted up in clumps - they stick together. A mixture of greasy and sticky fingers from people playing whilst eating, and also natural grease and oil from our skin has an effect on these cards. It seems to be more pronounced with 'smooth' cards like those used in Dominion, Guildhall and 7 Wonders, less so with cards with a linen finish like Hanabi and Tichu, and it makes them a nightmare to shuffle.

I've got a habit of massaging my brow while thinking, which transfers oil from my skin onto the cards, resulting in the same problem, on a much smaller scale. I've sleeved all the cards and elimiated the issue. Granted, it's cost me around £120 to sleeve the full set with purple FFG sleeves, but it gives me peace of mind - and there's another reason to sleeve them, the old insurance salesman's favourite - peace of mind.
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Oskar 10101
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I sleeved everything this month (in the order of 3000).

This game requires shuffling, shuffling and loads more shuffling. So if you play a lot, loads of shuffling.

In particular most base cards and the more popular cards from the base set started showing considerable wear after only 1.5 years of playing, the other sets fortunately still looked fine. So replaced just the base set with a new one, then sleeved everything and then gave the old base box to a very happy friend.

If you play, plan to play or just like cards in pristine condition consider sleeving instead of hoping you can replace one or multiple boxes for a new set of pristine cards.

In my language 3 boxes are sold out, one of which (Alchemy) will not get reprinted (according to publisher). Would you want to take that chance in your language ? Edit/Correction July 19th: Apparently Alchemy in Dutch was requested by the publisher for a reprint as well. Thanks Jay.

I went for FFG Purple sleeves, after reading up on "best sleeves for Dominion" amongst others a lot on BBG. These FFG sleeves are not the cheapest but very good quality, consistent sizing, and shuffling works like a charm. It cost me around 135 Euros and am very happy with the result. All 9 sleeved sets plus promos are stored in 3 original Dominion boxes (made 12 boxes to replace the 3 original inserts).

So if you do decide to go for sleeves make sure you read up before deciding which brand to go for.
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The Compulsive Completist
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I've sleeved twice. The first time was with cheap sleeves that were horrible. The second time was with a more expensive quality sleeves. I'm happy now.
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George I.
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Hockey Mask wrote:
I've sleeved twice. The first time was with cheap sleeves that were horrible. The second time was with a more expensive quality sleeves. I'm happy now.

Would you like to also mention which sleeves? Thanks. meeple
 
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The Compulsive Completist
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Picon wrote:
Hockey Mask wrote:
I've sleeved twice. The first time was with cheap sleeves that were horrible. The second time was with a more expensive quality sleeves. I'm happy now.

Would you like to also mention which sleeves? Thanks. meeple


http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/780664/my-16-day-sleeving-ex...

Began with Maydays ended with FFG Permiums
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Rick Teverbaugh
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My experience with Maydays is outstanding. There is sometimes a bit of width variance, but they have cheerfully replaced any of those. The sleeves themselves wear well and very, very few have been replaced.
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