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Subject: Thugs w/ Delayed abilities: have to be in play later to resolve? rss

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James 3
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Played last night for the first time, and a corner case came up that we weren't clear on how it would work:

One Thug had an ability that stated "on your next turn, DO something" (i think it said you can put a played action back in your hand? I forget which thug it was right now and don't have game in front of me, but definitely triggered on the NEXT turn". My opponent played a card with a COST: THUG (Suicide Mission in this case) and trashed this character with a delayed trigger, so that it wasn't in play anymore when the NEXT TURN timing window would happen...what happens?

1) does the delayed trigger action go "on the stack" when the thug is played the previous turn, and his ability will happen regardless of if he is still in play then? (i.e.: playing the THUG is like a "sorcery", and sticking around in play has nothing to do with the spell effect, even though the effect doesn't happen until the next turn?)

2) or does he only work if actually in play THEN? My magic brain wants permanents with triggers to be in play during the trigger condition...but this isn't magic, so wasn't sure...

 
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Eoin Corrigan
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I'm not 100% sure, but my inclination is that a thug or holding card removed from play no longer has an impact.
 
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James 3
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I thought the wording was ambiguous and not clearly requiring the Thug to be there to trigger later, and could certainly see either interpretation, so I cam here, as DonaldX often can be found clarifying rules to his own games in these forums

I'll post the exact text of the cards in question when i get home later, so others can parse the language and guess what his intent is

edit: i think the Thug was Rotten Johhny Simmons: "Next Turn, you ignore needs". what if he is NOT in play next turn somehow? do you ignore needs or not?
 
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Gillum the Stoor
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Donald X. has already said
1. If you discard a holding, its development markers go away.
2. If you discard the Thug that Ed "Rubberface" Teach copied, he goes away too.

It would seem consistent to say that, if a Thug with a delayed effect is discarded before that effect can occur, it doesn't.
 
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James 3
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gillum wrote:
Donald X. has already said
1. If you discard a holding, its development markers go away.
2. If you discard the Thug that Ed "Rubberface" Teach copied, he goes away too.

It would seem consistent to say that, if a Thug with a delayed effect is discarded before that effect can occur, it doesn't.


i don't think either of those rulings has much to do with how Thug "effects" occur, which are resolved after playing cards in that round. I also think this only impacts a few small corner cases in general.

and on point2, thats not what he actually says. He says that Rubberface basically IS the other thug, and for memory reasons, recommends trashing the copy rather than the original if you had to trash A thug. it doesn't say trashing the original trashes the copy at all.
 
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Gillum the Stoor
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flamejuggler wrote:
He says that Rubberface basically IS the other thug, and for memory reasons, recommends trashing the copy rather than the original if you had to trash A thug. it doesn't say trashing the original trashes the copy at all.

He wrote, "if you are going to lose Ed or the other Thug, lose Ed."

I guess I took that to imply, "if you are going to lose ... the other Thug, lose Ed [too]."

Maybe I misread that, and he really meant that, if you have to lose a thug (perhaps with some characteristic), always lose Ed before you lose the one that he is copying.
 
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Donald X.
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flamejuggler wrote:
Played last night for the first time, and a corner case came up that we weren't clear on how it would work:

One Thug had an ability that stated "on your next turn, DO something" (i think it said you can put a played action back in your hand? I forget which thug it was right now and don't have game in front of me, but definitely triggered on the NEXT turn". My opponent played a card with a COST: THUG (Suicide Mission in this case) and trashed this character with a delayed trigger, so that it wasn't in play anymore when the NEXT TURN timing window would happen...what happens?

1) does the delayed trigger action go "on the stack" when the thug is played the previous turn, and his ability will happen regardless of if he is still in play then? (i.e.: playing the THUG is like a "sorcery", and sticking around in play has nothing to do with the spell effect, even though the effect doesn't happen until the next turn?)

2) or does he only work if actually in play THEN? My magic brain wants permanents with triggers to be in play during the trigger condition...but this isn't magic, so wasn't sure...

"Next turn, do x" is set in motion when you play the card, and not contingent on the card being in play after that; the card tracks that it will happen, but it still happens even without the card.

So for example if you play the Thug with "Next turn, ignore Needs" and at the end of that turn have to lose a Thug and choose to lose that one, you still ignore Needs on your next turn. It's just harder to remember.
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Donald X.
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gillum wrote:
He wrote, "if you are going to lose Ed or the other Thug, lose Ed."

I guess I took that to imply, "if you are going to lose ... the other Thug, lose Ed [too]."

Maybe I misread that, and he really meant that, if you have to lose a thug (perhaps with some characteristic), always lose Ed before you lose the one that he is copying.

I did not mean "too." I meant, for tracking reasons, if you have to lose a thug, I recommend choosing Ed rather than the thug he copies, because the thug he copies has the rules text you are trying to remember and Ed does not. You don't lose both, and you can choose to lose the other thug rather than Ed, if you are feeling ornery.
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James 3
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donaldx wrote:

"Next turn, do x" is set in motion when you play the card, and not contingent on the card being in play after that; the card tracks that it will happen, but it still happens even without the card.

So for example if you play the Thug with "Next turn, ignore Needs" and at the end of that turn have to lose a Thug and choose to lose that one, you still ignore Needs on your next turn. It's just harder to remember.


thanks so much for the authoritative answer Donald! that makes sense. after looking through the cards, it seems this interaction only happens if you play one of 2 particular actions that specify you trash a thug at end of next turn, then play one of 2 specific thugs on that following turn (one ignores costs next turn, the other ignores needs). so its a corner case apparently...but it happened on my first play! thanks!
 
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