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Hornet Leader: Carrier Air Operations» Forums » Rules

Subject: unused ordinance rss

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Andrew Gudgeon
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Hi all

I know that you do not get the SO points back that you spent on special weapons, but what about the weapon itself? Do they and all other weapons go back into the carriers magazine, or are they lost? I have the Vassal module and you have a right click option to return the counters to the magazine, but is this just for if you change your mind during the arming phase?

This may be superfluous but as this is my first post in this particular game forum it has to be said: AWESOME GAME! I only bought it last Saturday, but if I'm not playing it I'm either reading or thinking about it
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John Brown
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The weapons are lost too. I'm guessing that option is for changing your mind during arming. However, take a peek at the Superior Ordnance Rules on DVG's site (www.dvg.com) which just returns the SO points for unused ordnance to your pool. Based on your question, this might be right up your alley.

You could also make up your own variant where individual weapons are kept in a squadron inventory, though you'd have to track that somehow. Cost wise, I'd ball park it at maybe a third of the Superior Ordnance cost (i.e. 5/10/15). Superior Ordnance gives you imminently flexible SO points (which an be used on more than weapons) while this would restrict you to reusing a particular weapon.
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Judy Krauss
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gudgey wrote:
Hi all

I know that you do not get the SO points back that you spent on special weapons, but what about the weapon itself? Do they and all other weapons go back into the carriers magazine, or are they lost? I have the Vassal module and you have a right click option to return the counters to the magazine, but is this just for if you change your mind during the arming phase?

This may be superfluous but as this is my first post in this particular game forum it has to be said: AWESOME GAME! I only bought it last Saturday, but if I'm not playing it I'm either reading or thinking about it


I may be misunderstanding what you are asking, but the designer has said that although ordinance is restricted by counter limits, after each mission, all counters are freed up again to be possibly used in the next mission. This question came up concerning whether secondary missions were limited to what ordinance counters weren't used in the primary mission. Dan ruled that each mission had full access to all appropriate counters (those that could normally be used by the aircraft according the the campaign, including special weapons if the SO is paid).
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John Brown
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Jude may be more perceptive about what the source of the confusion was. If that's the case, I know the TAL module had a special place to click and then a keyboard shortcut that would reset the board after a mission. You might investigate if the HL:CAO Vassal module also has this useful automation.
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Andrew Gudgeon
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Thanks for the answers guys.

I'm also still getting to grips with the Vassal module. I can't be sure but I think that when I right clicked on the planes to send them back to the carrier all the ordinance I had expended disappeared from where I had stacked them off to one side but the ECM pods were still on the cards on the arming area, so I sent these back to the ships magazine. I will see what happens if I bring something else back later.

I played a mission this evening (short Iraq '91) and as it happens the only thing I brought back was the ECM pods. In fact I was one point short of the eight I needed and had to strafe the target, a command centre, and lost a Tomcat doing so. After failing the ECM pod roll I rolled for evasion and rolled a pair of tens and down went the F-14!
So, there I was facing a failed mission and a lost plane and my last chance was to strafe the target one last time with a Hornet....and rolled another ten!!!
Mission accomplished with thee SOPs as a bonus. No joy on the Tomcat crew mind, only rolled a two after going down over the target and I had no ATG left. Green pilots shouldn't buzz SAM sites at low level!

Tremendous fun

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Sheldon Morris
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gudgey wrote:
After failing the ECM pod roll I rolled for evasion and rolled a pair of tens and down went the F-14!

...

Tremendous fun

Haha! I had a similar bit of luck the other night when I had two evasion attempts come up as double 9's. Couldn't believe it. I even rolled two separate dice at the same time.

I just completed day 7 of a long Iraq 1991 campaign - first campaign ever - and having a blast too!
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Andrew Gudgeon
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Jude wrote:
gudgey wrote:
Hi all

I know that you do not get the SO points back that you spent on special weapons, but what about the weapon itself? Do they and all other weapons go back into the carriers magazine, or are they lost? I have the Vassal module and you have a right click option to return the counters to the magazine, but is this just for if you change your mind during the arming phase?

This may be superfluous but as this is my first post in this particular game forum it has to be said: AWESOME GAME! I only bought it last Saturday, but if I'm not playing it I'm either reading or thinking about it


I may be misunderstanding what you are asking, but the designer has said that although ordinance is restricted by counter limits, after each mission, all counters are freed up again to be possibly used in the next mission. This question came up concerning whether secondary missions were limited to what ordinance counters weren't used in the primary mission. Dan ruled that each mission had full access to all appropriate counters (those that could normally be used by the aircraft according the the campaign, including special weapons if the SO is paid).


That's an interesting rule, but aren't the primary and secondary missions run in parallel? If that's true then the same bomb couldn't be carried on two missions at the same time? Doesn't it say.somewhere that the same pilot can not fly on both missions, i guess because he's already out on one?

Thanks for the link to the superior ordinance rules Jude, not sure if I'll use them as there's quite a big initial hit in SOPs.
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Andrew Gudgeon
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Actually, an earlier post I read earlier said that "each mission starts with a clean slate", if that's true then all of the used and unused ordinance probably did go back into the ships magazine for the next mission?

So, I am thinking that only the SOPs are reduced each mission but not the quantity of available ordinance?
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Andrew Gudgeon
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Okay, I think I have found the answer here:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/596125/aim-120-csot
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Michael Andersch
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That's what the FAQ (see Files section) is for... whistle

This question has been asked soooo many times now...
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Judy Krauss
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gudgey wrote:
Jude wrote:
gudgey wrote:
Hi all

I know that you do not get the SO points back that you spent on special weapons, but what about the weapon itself? Do they and all other weapons go back into the carriers magazine, or are they lost? I have the Vassal module and you have a right click option to return the counters to the magazine, but is this just for if you change your mind during the arming phase?

This may be superfluous but as this is my first post in this particular game forum it has to be said: AWESOME GAME! I only bought it last Saturday, but if I'm not playing it I'm either reading or thinking about it


I may be misunderstanding what you are asking, but the designer has said that although ordinance is restricted by counter limits, after each mission, all counters are freed up again to be possibly used in the next mission. This question came up concerning whether secondary missions were limited to what ordinance counters weren't used in the primary mission. Dan ruled that each mission had full access to all appropriate counters (those that could normally be used by the aircraft according the the campaign, including special weapons if the SO is paid).


That's an interesting rule, but aren't the primary and secondary missions run in parallel? If that's true then the same bomb couldn't be carried on two missions at the same time? Doesn't it say.somewhere that the same pilot can not fly on both missions, i guess because he's already out on one?

Thanks for the link to the superior ordinance rules Jude, not sure if I'll use them as there's quite a big initial hit in SOPs.


That seemed strange to me, too, since both missions are flown simultaneously, which is why I checked with the designer himself.

It wasn't me that gave you that link, BTW.

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Andrew Gudgeon
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Thanks very much Michael

I hadn't looked through the files section yet, I bet that there's all sorts of goodies in there!?

Found the DVG answer on Page 9. I'll enjoy reading through the rest of the FAQ tomorrow at work.
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Andrew Gudgeon
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Jude wrote:
gudgey wrote:
Jude wrote:
gudgey wrote:
Hi all

I know that you do not get the SO points back that you spent on special weapons, but what about the weapon itself? Do they and all other weapons go back into the carriers magazine, or are they lost? I have the Vassal module and you have a right click option to return the counters to the magazine, but is this just for if you change your mind during the arming phase?

This may be superfluous but as this is my first post in this particular game forum it has to be said: AWESOME GAME! I only bought it last Saturday, but if I'm not playing it I'm either reading or thinking about it


I may be misunderstanding what you are asking, but the designer has said that although ordinance is restricted by counter limits, after each mission, all counters are freed up again to be possibly used in the next mission. This question came up concerning whether secondary missions were limited to what ordinance counters weren't used in the primary mission. Dan ruled that each mission had full access to all appropriate counters (those that could normally be used by the aircraft according the the campaign, including special weapons if the SO is paid).


That's an interesting rule, but aren't the primary and secondary missions run in parallel? If that's true then the same bomb couldn't be carried on two missions at the same time? Doesn't it say.somewhere that the same pilot can not fly on both missions, i guess because he's already out on one?

Thanks for the link to the superior ordinance rules Jude, not sure if I'll use them as there's quite a big initial hit in SOPs.


That seemed strange to me, too, since both missions are flown simultaneously, which is why I checked with the designer himself.

It wasn't me that gave you that link, BTW.



Ah no, thanks to John and to everyone else too.
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