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Subject: 0-12 ever since we started playing correctly. rss

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My wife and I have been playing EH + FL lately and have been loving it. When we first started out we were at about a 50% win rate. Then we realized we were forgetting to advance doom when the omen track hit matching gates. Well, ever since we have been 0-12 while playing at least each AO once and in groups of 2 - 4.

How the hell are you guys winning? I know a very common mistake people seem to make is stacking dice bonuses from their assets. Another mistake is that investigators are specifically picking which spells they want when gaining spells (you're supposed to take the first drawn). We never have done either of these and to be honest those are the only things I can see that would actually produce some wins. We are very experienced gamers but I just don’t understand how people are reporting 60% win rates. The RNG from card draw just kills us everytime(ie no clue producing research encounters over multiple turns).

EDIT: Added another huge mistake people make that makes the game easier.
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Dave K
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olafpkyou wrote:
My wife and I have been playing EH + FL lately and have been loving it. When we first started out we were at about a 50% win rate. Then we realized we were forgetting to advance doom when the omen track hit matching gates. Well, ever since we have been 0-12 while playing at least each AO once and in groups of 2 - 4.

How the hell are you guys winning? I know a very common mistake people seem to make is stacking dice bonuses from their assets. We never have done this and to be honest that’s the only thing I can see that would actually produce some wins. We are very experienced gamers but I just don’t understand how people are reporting 60% win rates. The RNG from card draw just kills us everytime(ie no clue producing research encounters over multiple turns).


I have only played a couple times, won once and lost once. The game we won we had people who were basically being our "clue engines" by having someone sit in London (I think?) to keep getting clue placing events, and then someone else with the clairvoyance spell to keep going straight for the tokens. The other two players ran around to deal with the assorted events and monsters that had to be dispatched.

This actually worked really well most of the time. The player with clairvoyance had bought up as many bonus and reroll-granting things as possible so could complete most tokens on the first try.

The second game we simply got overwhelmed. We had three rumor events in a row on top of some very unfortunate battles. The party was also not that well balanced and lacked a spellcaster, plus the only strong combatant got hammered with a sanity loss that took him out of commission quickly.
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Chick Lewis
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I don't know about anybody reporting 60% wins. Methinks they MIGHT be using one of the easier versions of the Mythos deck, or have a rule or two upside-down.

We are 3 wins in 9 plays.

It is possible that in your early (unintentionally easier) games you got into slothful habits, not focussing on the mysteries and the CRUCIAL rumors, or spending too long buffing up your characters, etc.

In your 12 consecutive losses, did you generally lose by the doom track running out and the Great Old One eating your lunch?
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William Cody
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Just get charlie kane, and the sailor and whatever other investigators you want and it's much easier in my opinion.
 
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Richard
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I've still only won once, I think. Adding Yig's cards in just made it that much harder.

I think, especially with low investigator count, there are two big influences. One, the investigators you play and their synergy; Second, the gates and their timing with the omen track.

On the latter, which is pure luck, the timing of the gates opening up with respect to the omen track symbols can make a big impact. If they are on the opposite side of the dial when they open, you can get time to close them; however, if they open up right on the next dial turn and then you get a bunch of Omen tick cards, you will be hammered.

On the strategy side, I think players that post higher win rates choose their investigator team with an eye on synergy. I, however, do not and just pick one or two out randomly. This will perhaps make the largest impact on winning and losing.
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Chris J Davis
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olafpkyou wrote:
My wife and I have been playing EH + FL lately and have been loving it. When we first started out we were at about a 50% win rate. Then we realized we were forgetting to advance doom when the omen track hit matching gates. Well, ever since we have been 0-12 while playing at least each AO once and in groups of 2 - 4.


How the hell were you guys ever *losing* if you never advanced Doom?

And what did you think the Omen track was for if you never actually did anything with it?
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bleached_lizard wrote:
olafpkyou wrote:
My wife and I have been playing EH + FL lately and have been loving it. When we first started out we were at about a 50% win rate. Then we realized we were forgetting to advance doom when the omen track hit matching gates. Well, ever since we have been 0-12 while playing at least each AO once and in groups of 2 - 4.


How the hell were you guys ever *losing* if you never advanced Doom?

And what did you think the Omen track was for if you never actually did anything with it?


We figured it was just for monster surges. There's plenty of other events that happen to advance doom. Reckoning, rumors, monsters, dying, going insane, AO special abilities.

We do what everyone suggests in here and the games are generally always manageable on our part. The problem is at some point in every game there will be a series of bad card draws. For example someone will be trying for clues and none of the research cards will provide clues regardless of test outcome. Same with otherworld encounters. Same with trying to dock a player in a certain city to spawn clues/kill monsters/get spells. It seems like we always hit bad draw at some point and it takes us from having everything under control to a inevitable loss a handful of rounds later.

Something that might be a detriment to us is probably 80% of our games have been 3 player. We've noticed the gates/clues/surge are the same for 4.
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chicklewis wrote:
I don't know about anybody reporting 60% wins. Methinks they MIGHT be using one of the easier versions of the Mythos deck, or have a rule or two upside-down.


Players are reporting a 66% win rate at normal difficulty in 4 player games.
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Frank Franco
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I think the 60% win rate is pure bullshit myself.
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Jonathan Foerster
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So far I have played 4 solo games (2 characters) and I have lost every time. Gotten close, but always get one or two cards that mess me up and then I can't recover fast enough.
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Chick Lewis
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Thanks, Ben, the statistics page is very interesting. I goess WE are also playing ineffectively with only 33% wins.
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R L
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Yeah, I really don't buy the statistic page for wins. That or people winning that much are doing things like stacking all the die bonuses from assets (common mistake)
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60% sounds reasonable to me, especially without the expansion.

There are many factors that contribute to the overall ease of the game, and I find that the first few rounds can have a massive domino effect on the rest of the game. For example, yesterday my group (of 4) had a pretty comfortable win against Azathoth, whereas today my group (of 3) got absolutely slaughtered by Yog-Sothoth before we put so much as a single clue on the first mystery.

I'm certainly no expert, but I suspect that players may be winning a lot more often when:
- They have an even-numbered group size.
- They use certain 'support' characters like Charlie Kane, who can keep cranking out Assets and boosting the entire group without ever moving from his spot.
- They are able to close a portal or two early in the first two rounds, keeping the monster spawns to a manageable level without ever spiralling out of control.
- They manage to pick up items that synergise with their character's abilities, so you get one character who never fails spells or picks up two clue tokens every round (due to a particular tome artifact).

On the other hand, nasty cards can cripple your entire team if caught at the wrong time. On our above loss, I was lost in Time and Space after the very first round, then we had two horrendous rumours spawn before we had any clues to deal with them, one of which killed a player in round three. After that, we so far behind we simply couldn't deal with all the portals spawning on opposite sides of the board or the odd monster that kept jumping from one investigator to the next.
 
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Xelto G
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olafpkyou wrote:
Yeah, I really don't buy the statistic page for wins. That or people winning that much are doing things like stacking all the die bonuses from assets (common mistake)

Our win rate is about 90% without Forgotten Lore, and about 65% with it. Usually playing with four or six investigators.

The biggest thing is to remember to balance shutting down gates and solving mysteries. Start with a buff or two, but don't spend too much time building up your stats early. Then make sure you work on closing gates when possible, but trying to gather whatever is needed for the mystery at the same time, then working on the mystery.

Expeditions are nice if they're close, but not worth heading across the board for. If possible, gather travel tickets before doing expeditions, so you can (hopefully) get somewhere after leaving the expedition.
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Xelto wrote:
olafpkyou wrote:
Yeah, I really don't buy the statistic page for wins. That or people winning that much are doing things like stacking all the die bonuses from assets (common mistake)

Our win rate is about 90% without Forgotten Lore, and about 65% with it. Usually playing with four or six investigators.

The biggest thing is to remember to balance shutting down gates and solving mysteries. Start with a buff or two, but don't spend too much time building up your stats early. Then make sure you work on closing gates when possible, but trying to gather whatever is needed for the mystery at the same time, then working on the mystery.

Expeditions are nice if they're close, but not worth heading across the board for. If possible, gather travel tickets before doing expeditions, so you can (hopefully) get somewhere after leaving the expedition.


Problem is we do all that and we do it well. But we always end up getting screwed by long runs of research or otherworld encounters that produce no clue or gate closing no matter what the results are. After that, everything else has started spiraling out of control and we cant recover.
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BenOfTomorrow wrote:
chicklewis wrote:
I don't know about anybody reporting 60% wins. Methinks they MIGHT be using one of the easier versions of the Mythos deck, or have a rule or two upside-down.


Players are reporting a 66% win rate at normal difficulty in 4 player games.


This doesn't differentiate between games with just EH versus those with EH and FL. The overall win rate for EH + FL (any team sizes) is a little under 40%.

Personally, since getting FL, my success rate is
- 2 investigators: 5 games (1 victory)
- 4 investigators: 8 games (3 victories)

Overall, FL introduced various things that slow the game down (Research encounters not giving clues, poisoned conditions that prevent rests) which forces you to be concentrate more on what you need (and take more risks).

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Michael Dillenbeck
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Yeah, I'm one of those on the near constant losing end. The new "need a specific artifact" cards really piss me off. So we start out with the Hydra and need to find the sword as the only way to hurt it - and need to kill it to solve the first mystery. On about turn 12 we finally fluke into the artifact by getting a tome in Arkham and the last surviving investigator gets to kill it before driven insane by an awakened Cthulhu.

My wife says to me "If we lose again I can't see myself playing this game - there is no point. I feel like I can't do anything in the game."

Honestly, that is what EH and a lot of roll a d6 and succeed on a 5 or 6 adventure games are missing out on - a system where there are meaningful decisions to make throughout the most of the game when luck hands you crap.
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Gregor Samsa
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Hi - Quick question: How are you setting up your game?

And by this, I mean, are you randomly selecting the Ancient Big Bad and randomly selecting investigators or do you choose both, or just one?

That makes a HUGE difference.

For example, my gaming group of 3 always runs 4 investigators. We usually play against either Cthulhu or Yig as these seem to be more challenging. But we almost always select our investigators with Charlie being the default "community" character. We each have our favorite investigators to play but usually avoid Lola and Mark while Diana, Jacqueline, Jim and Norman end up in heavy rotation with the remainder making appearances with varying frequency.

You can probably spot a theme to the characters we choose: monster-sweepers and clue-handy characters with spell-casting ability. Nice mix.

If you're not doing so already, maybe you can choose your group to fit the task at hand.

Btw, how are you losing? Mythos deck running out? Doom track woes?

I gotta say, 0-12 seems like something's broken.
 
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olafpkyou wrote:

How the hell are you guys winning?

On the fly, for the mix of investigators, find card combos that work for investigators and items / spells, get the items (if you can) then try things and then hope.

We just lost to Shub, not badly, but list, 2 Investigators, but learned that:

Trish with:

* An Elder Sign (reduce sanity loss)
* The Lodge Researcher

is great for monster killing combos. He sanity is low, so the Elder Sign helped, but for not too tough of monsters, the Lodge Researcher gives you a Sanity *and* a clue when you defeat a monster, which is *excellent* for Trish because of her double re-roll ability. She would generate clues, and then could use them to help defeat the next monster, and then get a sanity and a clue (that she gets 2 re-rolls).

Eldritch Horror is literally filled with crazy combos of Investigator powers and item or spell or artifact combos (really amazing, but rare).

There are also Investigator Teamwork combos, like Jacqueline Fine's sending clues to people on the fly when they need to solve a Mystery or Rumor. Charlie Kane's giving everyone everything, and many more little subtle Investigator combos and movement tricks, like Inv 1, move Trade (items + tickets) to Inv 2, then Inv 2 moves fast and is powered up.

The lead investigator is often one of the most important decisions.

You can win without amazing card + power combos trying to be as careful as possible and prevent doom advancing, but the game is really a race, SOLVE THE MYSTERIES-FAST! - for that is really the only way to win!

Everything else is secondary, of course unless there is a nasty rumor which will lose you the game.

Ah, I could go on, the game is just good. More FFG! More!
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gossamerrag wrote:

Hi - Quick question: How are you setting up your game?


It's almost always 3 of us playing 3 investigators. We have always randomed the AO and investigators. We lose to different things every time but hardly ever to mythos running out.We finally picked investigators our last game but that didn't help at all because we got the spawn all gates rumor on turn one and the research encounters wouldn't give up any clues. And that kind of bad luck always ends up hitting us.
 
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charlie reif
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I also think people reporting a %66 win rate is baloney.

My group has 1 win in 6 tries, 4 players.

Our win - and I think what you should try - was when we followed the rules about setting up an easier mythos deck. I don't have the exact rules in front of me. BUT - there are easy, normal and hard Mythos Cards. The artwork along the side is different on each. you can build the Mythos deck completely with easy cards and normal cards, until you win a few games, then add in the hard difficulty cards. There is also another thought on how to build:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/15808168#15808168
[edited to fix this link.]

David Alfredsson wrote:
Actually for an easier game than easy mode and somewhat thematic, play with a progressive mythos deck.

(Seperate all mythos cards into 9 piles with elder sign, normal and tentacles seperated from each other and use only the easy piles for the 1st stage, only normal for the 2nd and only hard for the 3rd)

This makes for a very nice and easy start where you can collect items and clues before really dealing with the mysteries. It also often makes you feel that you have bad luck because most of the elder sign effects can't trigger properly at that point.

To bring difficulty up to something resembling easy/normal you HAVE to include an easy rumor at the start, and bumping the other rumors up a difficulty level.


I also feel that the game does not spawn enough clue tokens, that is always our problem.

I also think you should choose your own character until you win a few times. Then you can 'explore' trying to win with random characters.


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charlier64 wrote:
I also think people reporting a %66 win rate is baloney.

My group has 1 win in 6 tries, 4 players.

Our win - and I think what you should try - was when we followed the rules about setting up an easier mythos deck. I don't have the exact rules in front of me. BUT - there are easy, normal and hard Mythos Cards. The artwork along the side is different on each. you can build the Mythos deck completely with easy cards and normal cards, until you win a few games, then add in the hard difficulty cards. There is also another thought on how to build:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/15808168#15808168
[edited to fix this link.]

David Alfredsson wrote:
Actually for an easier game than easy mode and somewhat thematic, play with a progressive mythos deck.

(Seperate all mythos cards into 9 piles with elder sign, normal and tentacles seperated from each other and use only the easy piles for the 1st stage, only normal for the 2nd and only hard for the 3rd)

This makes for a very nice and easy start where you can collect items and clues before really dealing with the mysteries. It also often makes you feel that you have bad luck because most of the elder sign effects can't trigger properly at that point.

To bring difficulty up to something resembling easy/normal you HAVE to include an easy rumor at the start, and bumping the other rumors up a difficulty level.


I also feel that the game does not spawn enough clue tokens, that is always our problem.

I also think you should choose your own character until you win a few times. Then you can 'explore' trying to win with random characters.




I like this progressive mythos deck idea. I might have to try that out.
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Gregor Samsa
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olafpkyou wrote:
gossamerrag wrote:

Hi - Quick question: How are you setting up your game?


We finally picked investigators our last game but that didn't help at all because we got the spawn all gates rumor on turn one and the research encounters wouldn't give up any clues. And that kind of bad luck always ends up hitting us.


Man, that sucks! Who'd you guys pick? Please tell me you chose Jacqueline or Norman to help with the clue situation!
 
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charlier64 wrote:
I also feel that the game does not spawn enough clue tokens, that is always our problem.

Play with Trish. She can gain a clue every round, as long as she keeps trading them.
 
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olafpkyou wrote:
I like this progressive mythos deck idea. I might have to try that out.


I wouldn't use that progression if you're still finding the game too difficult. Why purposefully had harder cards? Pick the easy Mythos cards and a few Normal cards for all the phases.

The game can still be pretty challenging even with the easier cards.
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