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Subject: [Challenge] Can you build a solid NBN without APP? rss

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Grish Noren
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UPDATE - In order to encourage people to just play games. I'm no longer requiring that people confirm their wins/loses by getting their opponents to post. Just post the games you played in geek list and try to get to 30 games (online of offline). If you're really a big jerk, there's probably nothing I can do about it.

UPDATE - Post decks you are entering here: http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/176229/challenge-astro-les...

You'e now welcome to have a general discussion of deck building without APP, this competition, and the sanctity of OCTGN data in this thread without worrying about cluttering the thing up.

Historical Information:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1194214/how-oppressive-card

The result of this poll is essentially that broken or not broken, Astroscript Pilot Program invokes the most negative feelings in this game. Rewind about 9 months and that probably would have Account Siphon, but Astro has truly risen since the arrival of fast track and the realization that you could actually play biotic labor in NBN (Sweeps week & shipment from sansan probably had something to do with that).

What's the challenge? I am offering an award to whoever can build the best NBN deck without Astroscript Pilot Program.

The "best" deck will be the one that has played at least 30 games against unique challengers on OCTGN/in real life by the end of August and has the best win percentage. So you have time to research prepare and play a lot of games, about a month and a half.

The reward will be however much people contribute to this post, plus all of my geek gold, which is currently only $13.95 but may be higher by the time the tournament ends. I'm not really attached to the stuff, but I hear you can upgrade your account with it so someone who would like to do that will be able to at the end of this, provided they have the record.

Current Pot: $26.03


How to Enter - Visit the Geek List at the top of this thread to submit or volunteer to test the decks.

This thread is now completely open for discussion and strategizing the best way to build a deck when you're short Astroscript in NBN.

Questions? pm me, I'll make a faq at the end of this post to keep the thread as short as possible.

Faq

Can we use upstalk?
Yes, in fact, I'd encourage it since there's a new NBN identity that really opens up play style.

Operation 'ruin the OCTGN NBN statistics' is underway?
Pick your favorite:
1. {voice of bane}Of course.{/voice of bane}
2. I use OCTGN to experiment all of the time as do many other people. I don't think about OCTGN stats when I do that nor would I now.

Ban Astroscript?
Not really what this is about, though I guess its an interesting experiment that's not wholly unrelated. In a lot of conversations I've had revolving around this card I've heard that astro just wins you games. And its true, but I've heard this about decks that were able to win without it but sometimes just lucked into the train. I really want to know if this card that makes decks clearly better IS necessary to have a good NBN deck.

I can't play my deck on OCTGN?
Either find people who are willing to post on BGG that they played you in real life. This might be hard to find 30 unique players though, or figure out someone who can be your "champion". I'll split the geek gold evenly between the person who makes the deck and the person whose willing to play your deck as your proxi.
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Matt
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Re: Crutchless NBN Challenge
*I'll put it back later*
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Grish Noren
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Re: Crutchless NBN Challenge
Here's my volunteer thread. Try and wrack up some wins against me!
 
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Joshua Ely
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Re: Crutchless NBN Challenge
This is way cool! Sadly I have no way to play on OCTGN at the moment. I already have a deck in mind so maybe I will post and some adventurous spirit can pilot it on my behalf.
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Alex Rockwell
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Re: Crutchless NBN Challenge
Operation 'ruin the OCTGN NBN statistics' is underway?
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Oot TheMonk
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Re: Crutchless NBN Challenge
I think this is a valuable exercise to try to shake up the meta. One thing I noticed lately is that NBN has several reasonably ish costed sentries in Snoop and Flare. An interesting thing about Snoop is that it's ability is like up preventable damage, and flare can trash hardware (plascrete). A couple of snoop counters can give you some extra reach for a single scorch.
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Bryan Blumklotz
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Re: Crutchless NBN Challenge
I already did this at local tournament, I brought an Astro-less NBN: MN deck just before Regionals season. Only won one game with it. It was painfully slow to play...



NBN-ASTROLESS-v1-0

NBN: Making News (Core Set)

Agenda (12)
2x Breaking News (Core Set)
2x Character Assassination (Opening Moves)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)
2x TGTBT (True Colors)

Asset (6)
2x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
2x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
2x Mental Health Clinic (Honor and Profit) ••••

Upgrade (3)
3x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (11)
2x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
2x Fast Track (Honor and Profit)
2x Midseason Replacements (Future Proof)
2x Psychographics (Core Set)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (5)
2x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) ••
3x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (5)
2x Datapike (Creation and Control)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set)
1x Viper (Cyber Exodus)

Sentry (7)
3x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) ••••• •
3x Guard (Honor and Profit)
1x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set) ••

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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Re: Crutchless NBN Challenge
My bet is: take a Midseasons/Psychographics deck (out of established NBN archetypes, this is the one that has relies on Astrotrain the least and actually has decent agendas to replace Astro), use in-faction or neutral tag punishment (especially as people are still not used to Badtimes) so the influence you'd spend on SE will go to ice (you'll play long games, good ice will help a lot), get lucky to not encounter too many strong opponents. Not something very interesting Although some strange build may win this as well, IMHO the most important part is getting lucky abot opponents you encounter so you can win with anything as long as you pilot it with skill.
 
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Patrick Jamet
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Re: Crutchless NBN Challenge
The idea is really interesting but AstroScript is unlikely to be banned. At best, it will be limited to one copy per deck (at least, this is a commonly shared idea).

Maybe FFG would seriously consider this limitation if someone is able to build a very competitive deck.
 
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Zeb
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For some reason, there is a recent influx of astroless NBN decks on Meteor whistle

No Astro, no SanSan:

I'm not able to play on OCTGN but here is my list:
Astroless NBN (49 cards)

NBN: Making News

Agenda (11)
2 Market Research
3 NAPD Contract
1 Private Security Force
3 Project Beale
2 TGTBT

Asset (6)
3 Jackson Howard
3 Snare! ••••• •

Operation (15)
1 Closed Accounts
3 Hedge Fund
2 Midseason Replacements
3 Psychographics
2 Scorched Earth ••••• •••
1 SEA Source
3 Sweeps Week

Barrier (4)
1 Wall of Thorns
3 Wraparound

Code Gate (6)
2 Enigma
2 Pop-up Window
2 Tollbooth

Sentry (7)
3 Data Raven
2 Draco
2 Hunter

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/

It's mostly focused on Psychographics to score 4/2s, PSF lock as backup, and Scorch.
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Christopher MacLeod
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Ok, I'll bite. I think SanSan City Grid is just as degenerate as Astro, so let's take that out too. Truly this is hard mode.

NBN Hard Mode (49 cards)

Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center

Agenda (11)
2 Breaking News
3 Corporate War
3 NAPD Contract
3 Project Beale

Asset (8)
1 Aggressive Secretary ••
1 Jackson Howard
3 Marked Accounts
3 PAD Campaign

Upgrade (4)
3 Ash 2X3ZB9CY ••••• •
1 Corporate Troubleshooter

Operation (8)
3 Hedge Fund
2 Interns
3 Sweeps Week

Barrier (6)
3 Eli 1.0 •••
3 Wraparound

Code Gate (8)
3 Pop-up Window
2 RSVP
3 Tollbooth

Sentry (3)
2 Rototurret ••
1 Shinobi •••

ICE (1)
1 Chimera

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/

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Manuel Galdames
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I've playing decks without APP for some time now. I'm currently waiting for Upstalk to give this one a whirl. It could be interesting...

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/7337/luna-brother-1-0

Luna Brother 1.0

Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center (Upstalk)

Agenda (8)
3x Priority Requisition (Core Set)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)
2x Restructured Datapool (What Lies Ahead)

Asset (18)
3x City Surveillance (Mala Tempora)
3x Encryption Protocol (Trace Amount) •••
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
3x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
3x Mental Health Clinic (Honor and Profit) ••••• •
3x PAD Campaign (Core Set)

Operation (13)
2x Bad Times (Upstalk)
2x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
3x Midseason Replacements (Future Proof)
3x Psychographics (Core Set)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (3)
3x Hive (Double Time) ••••• •

Code Gate (2)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set)

Sentry (5)
3x Data Raven (Core Set)
2x Shadow (Core Set) ••

17 influence spent (max 17)
21 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Upstalk

Decklist published on http://netrunnerdb.com.
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Peter O
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It might be too late, but you could start a geek list. Each contestent would get their own geek item and discussion can happen for that deck and not make the list unreadable. General discussion can happen at the bottom of the geek list.

Also, I have a deck idea but won't be able to get 30 unique plays in. Anyone looking for an idea or someone to bounce ideas off can geekmail me. You can have all the credit.
 
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Grish Noren
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tranenturm wrote:
It might be too late, but you could start a geek list. Each contestent would get their own geek item and discussion can happen for that deck and not make the list unreadable. General discussion can happen at the bottom of the geek list.

Also, I have a deck idea but won't be able to get 30 unique plays in. Anyone looking for an idea or someone to bounce ideas off can geekmail me. You can have all the credit.


I have tried and hopefully not totally failed?
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Peter O
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gumOnShoe wrote:
tranenturm wrote:
It might be too late, but you could start a geek list. Each contestent would get their own geek item and discussion can happen for that deck and not make the list unreadable. General discussion can happen at the bottom of the geek list.

Also, I have a deck idea but won't be able to get 30 unique plays in. Anyone looking for an idea or someone to bounce ideas off can geekmail me. You can have all the credit.


I have tried and hopefully not totally failed?


Looks good to me!
 
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Andrew Keddie
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fireandblood wrote:
I've playing decks without APP for some time now. I'm currently waiting for Upstalk to give this one a whirl. It could be interesting...

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/7337/luna-brother-1-0

Luna Brother 1.0



Thumbed just for Datapool inclusion

 
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Eric Bezanson
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you can play punitive in TWIY with all 3pt-ers or 4 3pt-ers and NAPD's. I'm at work and can't throw in my decklist.

I think there is a deck out there in the ether utilizing market research and beale as its core that you could probably do without APP using NAPD as speed-bump. The theory is that while they require 4 agendas to score you only require 2. I reckon that means midseason/psycho but maybe there's an alternative path.
 
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Yi Sheng Siow
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This challenge is interesting, but I would like to point out that the resulting winner of this challenge is likely to be a 'gimmicky' deck rather than a 'solid' deck, since you're simply playing against 30 unique opponents on OCTGN without repeats, and they have zero prior information on your deck.

Gimmicky decks lose more power when the opponents figure out what's in the deck, compared to solid decks. An example of a gimmicky deck is a HB 3 pointer punitive deck, while an example of a solid deck is HB sansan fast advance. The more gimmicky the deck, the less likely it is to win against a skilled opponent who knows information about the list. Gimmicky decks are worse in tournaments because information about your deck is likely to leak during the tournament.

TLDR: winner of this challenge will likely be a gimmicky deck, not a solid deck.
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It might be gimmicky, but I'm also requiring that you post your deck publicly. I'm not encouraging scouting, and I wouldn't encourage anyone to build a deck to defeat each one they play against, but I'd think about the way the deck plays before facing it if I had the list at hand. I'm kinda leaving that up to the runner's discretion.

I'd prefer you run with decks you're used to running with that haven't been tweaked to handle the particular NBN deck you're playing against, but I don't mind you going in a bit prepared. This is supposed to be a challenge for the NBN player.

Also, in tournament structures if your opponent doesn't know what they're playing against, that's usually good for you.
 
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Yi Sheng Siow
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gumOnShoe wrote:
It might be gimmicky, but I'm also requiring that you post your deck publicly. I'm not encouraging scouting, and I wouldn't encourage anyone to build a deck to defeat each one they play against, but I'd think about the way the deck plays before facing it if I had the list at hand. I'm kinda leaving that up to the runner's discretion.

I'd prefer you run with decks you're used to running with that haven't been tweaked to handle the particular NBN deck you're playing against, but I don't mind you going in a bit prepared. This is supposed to be a challenge for the NBN player.

Also, in tournament structures if your opponent doesn't know what they're playing against, that's usually good for you.


I'm not suggesting that the players running against the NBN's will have information. They won't. The NBN's can always play against random public players.

In most tournament structures, whether you like it or not, the truth is most serious players can usually get some data on most opponent's decks, either through watching, hearing, or simply having friends. While scouting in tournaments is completely off-topic, OCTGN 30 unique opponents with no repeats is not like that at all.
 
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siowy wrote:
I'm not suggesting that the players running against the NBN's will have information. They won't. The NBN's can always play against random public players.

In most tournament structures, whether you like it or not, the truth is most serious players can usually get some data on most opponent's decks, either through watching, hearing, or simply having friends. While scouting in tournaments is completely off-topic, OCTGN 30 unique opponents with no repeats is not like that at all.


I'm saying that one of the conditions for entering this is that you have to post your deck publicly. Which means the deck lists ARE available. I'm the one saying they'll have the info if they want it. And that those players have to confirm they played against the deck.
 
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patrick
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Opponents not being random, with probable random decks, massively changes the dynamics of the challenge. Even decks using APP would have issues playing against decks that expect NBN and any other tricks they may have up their sleeve. I like the idea of a non-APP NBN challenge. I even like the idea of a "Show us your deck, now let us try to beat it" challenge. But this becomes a different animal altogether.

As it stands, I will probably not record any games, but wish everyone who does the best of luck and fun!
 
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Yi Sheng Siow
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Now I'm confused. So who can participants play against? Wasn't it just 30 unique opponents?
 
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Yeah but the only way for me to tell they are actually unique is if they post here.
 
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Yi Sheng Siow
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Oh I was under the impression participants would just keep their own OCTGN username and win/loss log. You should probably clarify that in the OP
 
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