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Thunderstone Advance: Numenera» Forums » Rules

Subject: Game breaking combo? rss

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Warren Smith
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Played a game of Numenera tonight. We had the Beast monsters for Lvl 1 from which I got tons of disease cards ... but that's a different story.

In our game, using the 4-4-4 monster setup method, we had the Thunderstone Bearer come out at the earliest possibility. Not only was the Thunderstone Bearer Phylethis, whose Battle ability is "Discard cards equal to the highest level of monster in the hall", but he also happened to have 2 treasure cards in his possession:

Stunner - Battle: Discard 1 card
Cellular Disruptor - Battle: Destroy 1 card for each level of this monster. Destroy 1 hero.

Several questions were immediately raised. What level is a Thunderstone Bearer? Would you consider it Level 3 or Level 4 or would this not apply and thus the Battle effect of the Cellular Disruptor would do nothing? And it is considered to have a level, then how do you beat a monster whose combined Battle abilities can have you discard/destroy 7 or so cards? What am I missing that doesn't make this combo break the game?

I suppose you could leave him until the no other creatures were in the Hall, thereby reducing the number of discards forced by it's own Battle ability. You can't make him leave the hall thereby forcing the treasure cards to be lost. How do you handle this situation?

When we had all these questions, we decided we didn't want to deal with it and just stopped the game right there.

Thinking more about the Cellular Disruptor, say the monster holding it was Level 3. Would you then have to destroy "any 3 cards" and THEN destroy 1 hero, or would you just have to destroy 3 cards INCLUDING 1 hero? I'm thinking 4 total, one of which has to be a hero.

Thanks for any help/comments.
 
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Will M. Baker
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Thunderstone Bearers do not have a level, and so Cellular Disruptor's Battle effect would be limited to destroying 1 hero. Likewise, Phylethis's Battle effect would be keying off the other two monsters in the hall, not itself. That means with this particular setup, you'd be discarding a maximum of 4 cards, plus the 1 destroy, leaving you with 1 card in the worst case scenario.

Although it's true that Phylethis won't leave the hall unless defeated, the game ends the moment the Thunderstone Bearer breaches. So if the bearer looks unbeatable, I would just grab the points I could from monsters in front of it, and force it to breach. No need to end the game prematurely. (If I thought I were losing, I would of course want to grab points from monsters in higher ranks, rather than lower.)

If you really want to beat a combo like this, the two obvious ways are to employ a card draw engine or cards that can circumvent Battle effects. For the latter, the only sufficient combo Numenera has to offer would be two level 3 Gracefuls paired up. For the former, you'd have several viable options: Shock Nodule, Mental Scrambler, Tough, Charming, and Learned.

Still, pulling off 12 attack (and perhaps 3 light) after losing 5 cards would be really, really tough. In this situation, I'd expect the bearer to breach.
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Samuel Hinz
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Or have a bunch of xp to trade in for cards, light and attack power.
 
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abodi wrote:
Or have a bunch of xp to trade in for cards, light and attack power.


You can only use one cypher per turn.
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Warren Smith
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darquil wrote:
Still, pulling off 12 attack (and perhaps 3 light) after losing 5 cards would be really, really tough. In this situation, I'd expect the bearer to breach.


Thanks for the comments. They were very helpful and pointed out a few things that I either never knew or forgot. For instance, I somehow missed that Thunderstone Bearers always breach. Have never done that and have always played that we had to defeat it to end the game. Doh!

As to the level, I tried to find that in the manual and couldn't. I guess it's just the fact that there is no level listed so you shouldn't assume it has one. Does seem weird to me that it could make the artifact in this case less powerful, so that's probably why I figured I had to be missing something.

And while it wasn't in your comments, I had also missed the fact that you can only use 1 cypher per turn. Doh-squared!

As to our particular game, I was having a rough time of it and was being soundly beaten by my opponent so ending early didn't have much effect. At least next time, we'll know better should a similar situation pop up.

Thanks for the help.
 
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Warren Smith
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darquil wrote:
(If I thought I were losing, I would of course want to grab points from monsters in higher ranks, rather than lower.)


This makes me think about another question in regards to the ranks and the Dimensional Armor artifact. Your comments indicates that Rank 4 is higher than Rank 3 (given the Village setup which we were playing on). However, I was thinking about it in terms of Rank 1 is "higher" than Rank 2 as in elevation and coming out of a dungeon to the village. So, I thought the Dimensional Armor which says "Add Light +1 if you select a monster in rank 2 or higher" would only give you that light for Ranks 1 and 2, but instead it would give Light for Ranks 2, 3 and 4? I had Dimensional Armor beaten a monster with Dimensional Armor in the game and I recall this making a difference on at least one occasion.

Thanks again.
 
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Samuel Hinz
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DoomTurtle wrote:
abodi wrote:
Or have a bunch of xp to trade in for cards, light and attack power.


You can only use one cypher per turn.


Oh really? This is the first Time I've heard that. I don't own numenera.
 
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Will M. Baker
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wsmithjr wrote:
However, I was thinking about it in terms of Rank 1 is "higher" than Rank 2 as in elevation and coming out of a dungeon to the village. So, I thought the Dimensional Armor which says "Add Light +1 if you select a monster in rank 2 or higher" would only give you that light for Ranks 1 and 2, but instead it would give Light for Ranks 2, 3 and 4?


Yeah, this has caused some confusion, so you're not the only one. When it comes to rank, 'higher' means numerically higher (2 is higher than 1), rather than thematically higher (dungeon level 1 being higher in elevation than dungeon level 2). The same would go for hero levels, where level 3 is higher than level 2, even though level 2 is above level 3 in the hero stack.
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Will M. Baker
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abodi wrote:
Oh really? This is the first Time I've heard that. I don't own numenera.


Numenera, p.24 wrote:
You may use cyphers on your turn as Village/ Dungeon abilities. You may use only one cypher per turn.
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