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Subject: I hadn't heard about Max Tempkin's rape allegation...... rss

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B Rod
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but this is a very well written article about his current situation, which I urge people to read.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/07/15/cardboard-childre...

EDIT: Here is Mr Tempkin's response, and it is this response which the author, and myself, find so distasteful.

http://blog.maxistentialism.com/post/91476212698/this-is-a-b...
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Curt Carpenter
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I'm not sure why people need to be concerned with the personal lives of game designers. Any more than the personal lives of those who grow our food, build our residences, or build our mobile phones. I'm not saying people can't or shouldn't discuss it if they're interested. But I don't see a connection to gaming per se.

Oh, and "Advance directly to RSP. Do not pass Go."
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Ian Taylor
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I'm not sure I get the point of a boycott. What will it achieve exactly? As co-designer, Tempkin probably earns pennies on each copy of CaH sold. All a boycott is really doing is punishing the publisher, co-designers, retailer and everyone else involved with the game on the basis of something they couldn't have possibly known about (if it is even true, which, let's not forget, it might not be).

And what is the goal of the boycott? Do they want his name removed from the box? What will that achieve exactly? He will still earn his (tiny) royalties regardless, that is assured by the contract and will be even if he is tried and found guilty. Remove the whole game from the shelves? What, on the basis that Tempkin's contribution somehow makes the whole endeavour to produce the game invalid? That's a big slap in the face to everyone else involved.

This just reeks of "we can't think of anything good to do so let's do something bad instead"
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B Rod
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But gaming culture in general has a problem with its attitudes to women, and while IMO board gaming isn't as bad as video gaming, the more people read about these things, the more educated people can become, the happier world we will inhabit.

I thought it was interesting, as Mr Tempkin is someone people in this community will know and respect/love/follow, yet his response is unpleasant, and highlights why our beloved hobby carries such an appalling image in the wider world.
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B Rod
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piemasteruk wrote:
I'm not sure I get the point of a boycott. What will it achieve exactly? As co-designer, Tempkin probably earns pennies on each copy of CaH sold. All a boycott is really doing is punishing the publisher, co-designers, retailer and everyone else involved with the game on the basis of something they couldn't have possibly known about (if it is even true, which, let's not forget, it might not be).

And what is the goal of the boycott? Do they want his name removed from the box? What will that achieve exactly? He will still earn his (tiny) royalties regardless, that is assured by the contract and will be even if he is tried and found guilty. Remove the whole game from the shelves? What, on the basis that Tempkin's contribution somehow makes the whole endeavour to produce the game invalid? That's a big slap in the face to everyone else involved.

This just reeks of "we can't think of anything good to do so let's do something bad instead"


Aaaah, you misconstrue why I posted. I'm not concerned with the boycott, I thought the points Rob Florence made were excellent, thus I highlighted his article.
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Ryan King
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Read his whole response, not just the part nancy grace cut out to focus on without context. I'm not defending him, but this article is so bias it is only fair to read his version, too.
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Scott Nelson
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I don't think those who want to boycott understand how little that hurts a designer, and fully punishes the publisher.

As for the rape idea of asking clears it up. In a perfect world that works, but in this world drugs and alcohol and other highs can allow inhibitions to be lowered and unbeknownst to the parties involved, causes bad stuff to happen that they normally would not do.

Sure, a gentleman would ask where to draw the line, or not push to any sort of line. Sure, he would not drink to excess so he could form a good mindset on all matters involved. Well, add anything negative to the mix, and the gentleman ceases to exist in the same frame of mind; I mean even a recent break up can screw with one's normal way of doing things.

I meant this in a way of saying the gentleman could also be the gentlewoman in this picture.
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B Rod
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curtc wrote:
I'm not sure why people need to be concerned with the personal lives of game designers. Any more than the personal lives of those who grow our food, build our residences, or build our mobile phones. I'm not saying people can't or shouldn't discuss it if they're interested. But I don't see a connection to gaming per se.

Oh, and "Advance directly to RSP. Do not pass Go."


OK, I've thought more about this statement, and I'm sure even you can see the fallacy of your post.

Should we not be concerned with the personal lives of the priests, politicians, teachers and entertainers who have abused countless thousands of children? After all these people preach our sermons, run our country, educate the young and provide light entertainment.
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B Rod
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ropearoni4 wrote:
I don't think those who want to boycott understand how little that hurts a designer, and fully punishes the publisher.

As for the rape idea of asking clears it up. In a perfect world that works, but in this world drugs and alcohol and other highs can allow inhibitions to be lowered and unbeknownst to the parties involved, causes bad stuff to happen that they normally would not do.

Sure, a gentleman would ask where to draw the line, or not push to any sort of line. Sure, he would not drink to excess so he could form a good mindset on all matters involved. Well, add anything negative to the mix, and the gentleman ceases to exist in the same frame of mind; I mean even a recent break up can screw with one's normal way of doing things.


Wow, that is an abhorrent answer. You're saying that being drunk or high means you can do whatever you want? Are date rape drugs then acceptable?
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Scott Nelson
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Bongo_clive wrote:
curtc wrote:
I'm not sure why people need to be concerned with the personal lives of game designers. Any more than the personal lives of those who grow our food, build our residences, or build our mobile phones. I'm not saying people can't or shouldn't discuss it if they're interested. But I don't see a connection to gaming per se.

Oh, and "Advance directly to RSP. Do not pass Go."


OK, I've thought more about this statement, and I'm sure even you can see the fallacy of your post.

Should we not be concerned with the personal lives of the priests, politicians, teachers and entertainers who have abused countless thousands of children? After all these people preach our sermons, run our country, educate the young and provide light entertainment.


Do you understand the music you listen to? Do you understand the lifestyles they lead. You contribute to their lives by listening to their music, watching their tv program, etc. I wish more did understand what this means...alas most just say, "I like the beat."
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Scott Nelson
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Bongo_clive wrote:
ropearoni4 wrote:
I don't think those who want to boycott understand how little that hurts a designer, and fully punishes the publisher.

As for the rape idea of asking clears it up. In a perfect world that works, but in this world drugs and alcohol and other highs can allow inhibitions to be lowered and unbeknownst to the parties involved, causes bad stuff to happen that they normally would not do.

Sure, a gentleman would ask where to draw the line, or not push to any sort of line. Sure, he would not drink to excess so he could form a good mindset on all matters involved. Well, add anything negative to the mix, and the gentleman ceases to exist in the same frame of mind; I mean even a recent break up can screw with one's normal way of doing things.


Wow, that is an abhorrent answer. You're saying that being drunk or high means you can do whatever you want? Are date rape drugs then acceptable?


I'm saying stop using them. But understand others do use these things.
You clearly did not read the right message out of that paragraph.
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B Rod
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ryanking wrote:
Read his whole response, not just the part nancy grace cut out to focus on without context. I'm not defending him, but this article is so bias it is only fair to read his version, too.


But I have! That's the whole point. I will post both links in the original to be sure people find both.

But Mr Tempkin is saying there is a grey area between consensual and rape. THERE ISN'T.
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B Rod
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ropearoni4 wrote:
Bongo_clive wrote:
ropearoni4 wrote:
I don't think those who want to boycott understand how little that hurts a designer, and fully punishes the publisher.

As for the rape idea of asking clears it up. In a perfect world that works, but in this world drugs and alcohol and other highs can allow inhibitions to be lowered and unbeknownst to the parties involved, causes bad stuff to happen that they normally would not do.

Sure, a gentleman would ask where to draw the line, or not push to any sort of line. Sure, he would not drink to excess so he could form a good mindset on all matters involved. Well, add anything negative to the mix, and the gentleman ceases to exist in the same frame of mind; I mean even a recent break up can screw with one's normal way of doing things.


Wow, that is an abhorrent answer. You're saying that being drunk or high means you can do whatever you want? Are date rape drugs then acceptable?


I'm saying stop using them. But understand others do use these things.
You clearly did not read the right message out of that paragraph.


But understanding is to accept it. We should not accept it, we should be united in saying 'This is unacceptable'
 
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Ryan King
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He says they never had sex, fooled around a bit, then he broke it off. The article makes it seem like they had sex and there is a gray area of consent.
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Scott Nelson
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Bongo_clive wrote:
ropearoni4 wrote:
Bongo_clive wrote:
ropearoni4 wrote:
I don't think those who want to boycott understand how little that hurts a designer, and fully punishes the publisher.

As for the rape idea of asking clears it up. In a perfect world that works, but in this world drugs and alcohol and other highs can allow inhibitions to be lowered and unbeknownst to the parties involved, causes bad stuff to happen that they normally would not do.

Sure, a gentleman would ask where to draw the line, or not push to any sort of line. Sure, he would not drink to excess so he could form a good mindset on all matters involved. Well, add anything negative to the mix, and the gentleman ceases to exist in the same frame of mind; I mean even a recent break up can screw with one's normal way of doing things.


Wow, that is an abhorrent answer. You're saying that being drunk or high means you can do whatever you want? Are date rape drugs then acceptable?


I'm saying stop using them. But understand others do use these things.
You clearly did not read the right message out of that paragraph.



But understanding is to accept it. We should not accept it, we should be united in saying 'This is unacceptable'


Understand that everyone has a right to choose to fail. We have agency, you can't prevent people from screwing up unless you take away choice. Is that the world you live?
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Scott Nelson
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ryanking wrote:
He says they never had sex, fooled around a bit, then he broke it off. The article makes it seem like they had sex and there is a gray area of consent.


Fooling around is a gray area in people's minds. She may have thought it was more than he thought. Remember pres Clinton thought what he was doing was not sexual relations. In my mind, he was, blatantly at that even.
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Scott Nelson
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I feel like Frank Drebin on Naked Gun, wandering down some unknown thread...what time is it? Why am I up this late at night? And where the heck am I?
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B Rod
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ryanking wrote:
He says they never had sex, fooled around a bit, then he broke it off. The article makes it seem like they had sex and there is a gray area of consent.


So you believe him over her? We have no idea what occurred there, it's one word against another.
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Ryan King
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I just feel like that one quote is part of a larger thing where he is saying he's innocent because they didn't do anything. If he said yeah we slept together and she was drunk but still consented then yeah that's creepy. But he is clearly saying they didn't have sex and this woman is only perpetrating the rape culture by calling wolf (for whatever reason).

There is literally no evidence yet, so let's wait to see how it pans out. If more cases come out or something happens, then we'll go from there. If he really did it there is likely another story somewhere that will come out soon.
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Ryan King
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Bongo_clive wrote:
ryanking wrote:
He says they never had sex, fooled around a bit, then he broke it off. The article makes it seem like they had sex and there is a gray area of consent.


So you believe him over her? We have no idea what occurred there, it's one word against another.


I'm saying let's hold the phone on judging, that's all. I don't know this guy and his game is blah IMO, but I hate auto-judging in these cases where it is he said, she said.
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Allen OConnor
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That was difficult to read. It looks like they got a trained monkey to compose the article. Also, I couldn't give two shits about Max Tempkin's private life. You shouldn't judge someone on an allogation; the article says in one breath "innocent until proven guilty" then in another breath "we should boycott Cards Against Hummanity."
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van00uber wrote:
That was difficult to read. It looks like they got a trained monkey to compose the article. Also, I couldn't give two shits about Max Tempkin's private life. You shouldn't judge someone on an allogation; the article says in one breath "innocent until proven guilty" then in another breath "we should boycott Cards Against Hummanity."


We should not have to find this as a reason to place the ban on it.devil
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Scott Nelson
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I'm headed to sleep. I'll check it out in morning in the RSP threads
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Allen OConnor
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Bongo_clive wrote:
But gaming culture in general has a problem with its attitudes to women, and while IMO board gaming isn't as bad as video gaming, the more people read about these things, the more educated people can become, the happier world we will inhabit.


Gaming culture has a problem with women? What exactly do you mean by that? It could be further from that truth.
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B Rod
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ryanking wrote:
I just feel like that one quote is part of a larger thing where he is saying he's innocent because they didn't do anything. If he said yeah we slept together and she was drunk but still consented then yeah that's creepy. But he is clearly saying they didn't have sex and this woman is only perpetrating the rape culture by calling wolf (for whatever reason).

There is literally no evidence yet, so let's wait to see how it pans out. If more cases come out or something happens, then we'll go from there. If he really did it there is likely another story somewhere that will come out soon.


Except a witness statement is considered evidence.
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