Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
28 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Dungeon Lords» Forums » General

Subject: Tom's opinion... rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Stephen Lovell
United States
Edgewood
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, I just watched the DiceTower Top Ten Overrated games (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-8k9Auuw5g). At about the 18:30 Mark, Tom goes on about how Eurogamers claim to have a "token" Ameritrash game... and that game is Dungeon Lords.

I have rarely been so confused in my life. Though our tastes may differ, Tom Vasel is a board game veteran. He goes on to say that it's not Ameritrash but is indeed a Euro, but I have never heard anybody claim it's anything BUT a Euro.

He also complains that it's not a "dungeon-crawler", which it never claims to be, so I'm not sure what the issue is. Discuss!
8 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Franco
Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
Tom's talking out of his ass. The end.
42 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter R.
Italy
Bozen
Italy
flag msg tools
designer
Lies grow in the silence of those who hear them - Ursula K. Le Guin
badge
Lies grow in the silence of those who hear them - Ursula K. Le Guin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Everybody is free to have his own opinion on the game. I know that Dungeon Lords isn't a game for everyone. Tom is coming from a different standpoint. While I don't agree with him I can understand his opinion.
I personaly rate "Dungeon Lords" a 10 and so do many others.
For me this game has some things going on, that I also find in Ameritrash game.
But in it's core it is a euro-building game where things can get destroyed, which gives it this an ameritrash feeling. This is even greater with Galaxy Trucker, where there is also a diceroll which decides if my spaceship survives.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lior Kiperman
Israel
Ramat Gan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
When most people hear about a fantasy game, they expect a lot of randomness and ameritrash style gameplay, like throwing lots of dice or having many special abilities. This game is a euro game but it is not about building a city in France, it's about managing your own dungeon. Dungeon Lords is about resource management, planning ahead of time, and trying to guess what will your opponents do. It has never claimed to give a similar experience that Munchkin or Descent give, and I suppose Tom Vasel has expected it to be more similar to these games.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Grogan
United Kingdom
Cullompton
Devon
flag msg tools
designer
Check out all my instructional How to Play videos at youtube.com/GamingRulesVideos
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tom is one man with his own opinions. He shares them openly, and is honest. Whether he is right or not is a matter of personal opinion. Some stuff he says, I agree with 100%, and other things he say I couldn't disagree with more.

Tom is however very influential, and I know a lot of people who take what he says as gospel, which is a shame.
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark O'Reilly
United Kingdom
Chester
Cheshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mr Skeletor wrote:
Tom's talking out of his ass. The end.


Frank - you totally nailed it! .

Would like to add, I love Toms reviews, just I love Franks "Frank" cheeky comment too
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Felix Behnke
Germany
flag msg tools
I think know that Tom knows the kind of game it is, as you do.

But he has encounters a number of players that do not know that or that say Dungeon Lords=Dungeon Crawler. That is what upsets him.

If you had really listened to what he says in the video then you would also know that.

@ Mr Skeletor "great comment" [sarcasm], but you should not judge others by your standards, however low your standards are.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Lovell
United States
Edgewood
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fel1x wrote:
I think know that Tom knows the kind of game it is, as you do.

But he has encounters a number of players that do not know that or that say Dungeon Lords=Dungeon Crawler. That is what upsets him.

If you had really listened to what he says in the video then you would also know that.

@ Mr Skeletor "great comment" [sarcasm], but you should not judge others by your standards, however low your standards are.


I did listen, and even said so in my first post. I was just baffled that any person (not Tom but others) would consider DL an ameritrash game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alejandro Rascon
Mexico
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
PaulGrogan wrote:

Tom is however very influential, and I know a lot of people who take what he says as gospel, which is a shame.

In my opinion this is the point.
I understand that the dice tower fellows understand games and have played tons of them, and IMO, their contribution is fundamental to forward the cause of boardgames as a more mainstream hobby.
However, going from that to the point where we, the community, base our likes and dislikes on what he likes/dislikes,is a loooong step.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Grogan
United Kingdom
Cullompton
Devon
flag msg tools
designer
Check out all my instructional How to Play videos at youtube.com/GamingRulesVideos
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
morgothrond wrote:

However, going from that to the point where we, the community, base our likes and dislikes on what he likes/dislikes,is a loooong step.

I know some people that do just that.
I hope some day people are influenced by me instead of just saying I'm talking nonsense most of the time.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Bazler
United States
Bronx
New York
flag msg tools
"Come, and trip it as you go..."
badge
"...on the light fantastic toe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tom hates Euros. He won't admit it, but he does. Unless they are light, 30-minute, family-style, SdJ Euros, he hates them, regardless of theme.

That's why he bitches and bitches about European "trading in the Mediterranean" themes, but he still ends up hating Euro games that use themes he loves: Eclipse ("it's a cube pusher!"), Dungeon Lords ("it's not a dungeon crawler!"), and so on.

I wish he'd just stop reviewing Euros, because he should know he hates them. It would be like someone who hates war games who insisted on continuing to review war games ("ANOTHER WWII theme!?! Guys moving on a map?!? Dice for combat?!? Come on! Can't designers think of something else?")
12 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grant Holzhauer
United States
Chandler
Arizona
flag msg tools
Building the perfect game collection for our growing family
badge
Who knew Euro games could be thematic?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wouldn't say that Tom hates Euros. He loves Caverna, for example.

Shut Up and Sit Down love Euros, and they (or at least Quinn) didn't care for Dungeon Lords either.

Rahdo clearly loves Dungeon Petz far more than Dungeon Lords.

Tastes differ, of course. I think that some people feel that, despite the deep theme, it can feel pasted on given the mechanics. Again, to each his own. I don't want to play Dungeon Lords all the time, but we always enjoy it when we do play it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Dunagan
United States
Clermont
GA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbazler wrote:
Tom hates Euros. He won't admit it, but he does. Unless they are light, 30-minute, family-style, SdJ Euros, he hates them, regardless of theme.

That's why he bitches and bitches about European "trading in the Mediterranean" themes, but he still ends up hating Euro games that use themes he loves: Eclipse ("it's a cube pusher!"), Dungeon Lords ("it's not a dungeon crawler!"), and so on.

I wish he'd just stop reviewing Euros, because he should know he hates them. It would be like someone who hates war games who insisted on continuing to review war games ("ANOTHER WWII theme!?! Guys moving on a map?!? Dice for combat?!? Come on! Can't designers think of something else?")


Pretty certain he enjoys Le Havre and Caverna quite a bit, to name a couple.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Itai Perez
France
Paris
Ile-de-France
flag msg tools
designer
Soon in retail !
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbazler wrote:
Tom hates Euros. He won't admit it, but he does. Unless they are light, 30-minute, family-style, SdJ Euros, he hates them, regardless of theme.

That's why he bitches and bitches about European "trading in the Mediterranean" themes, but he still ends up hating Euro games that use themes he loves: Eclipse ("it's a cube pusher!"), Dungeon Lords ("it's not a dungeon crawler!"), and so on.

I wish he'd just stop reviewing Euros, because he should know he hates them. It would be like someone who hates war games who insisted on continuing to review war games ("ANOTHER WWII theme!?! Guys moving on a map?!? Dice for combat?!? Come on! Can't designers think of something else?")


That is just not true. For instance, he loves Caverna, Concordia (which is a trading in the mediterranean game) and Russian Railroads. And though he didn't like too much Dungeon Lords, he did like Dungeon Petz.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Rupp
United States
Marion
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I believe he said he doesn't like the limited number of decisions in the game but his logic is flawed because he only counts the 3 choices each round as a decision and completely discounts the decisions made while making those actions. While it's true, you only have so many actions in the game, you make a lot more decisions with trying to plan your dungeon and how to use what you've accumulated to deal with the adventures you got.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephane Guibord
Canada
Vaudreuil-dorion
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cbazler wrote:
Tom hates Euros. He won't admit it, but he does. Unless they are light, 30-minute, family-style, SdJ Euros, he hates them, regardless of theme.

That's why he bitches and bitches about European "trading in the Mediterranean" themes, but he still ends up hating Euro games that use themes he loves: Eclipse ("it's a cube pusher!"), Dungeon Lords ("it's not a dungeon crawler!"), and so on.

I wish he'd just stop reviewing Euros, because he should know he hates them. It would be like someone who hates war games who insisted on continuing to review war games ("ANOTHER WWII theme!?! Guys moving on a map?!? Dice for combat?!? Come on! Can't designers think of something else?")


You obviously never read his top 100 games list or many of his top 10 games. He doesn't hate Euros, he actually love many of them. I think Le Havre is probably in his top 3-5 best game of all time. He love Caverna (and agricola before that) without naming a bunch of other euros he enjoys.


Back to the first comment on this thread, Tom's comment was that some Euro players are telling him that they do enjoy ameritrash games and name Dungeon Lords as one of these Ameritrash. It is obviously NOT the case as Dungeon lords is an euro game with a very brillant and well used Theme (which is more than 80% of the euro games out there that just paste a theme on their mechanic).

So I guess Tom has been having discussion with a bunch of Euro gamers that have no clue what an Ameritrash game is. That's all.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Franco
Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
Fel1x wrote:

@ Mr Skeletor "great comment" [sarcasm], but you should not judge others by your standards, however low your standards are.


Why would I not judge others by my own standards? That's the dumbest thing I have heard since someone claiming dungeon lords is a "dungeon Crawl".

Anyone who takes any reviewers word as gospel is not the sharpest tool in the draw, so should be avoiding Dungeon Lords and sticking to TTR. So really the outcome of this thread is moot.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Felix Behnke
Germany
flag msg tools
@Mr Skeletor
Obviously you did not take the time watch section of the video. If you had you should have notice that Tom knows what kind of game Dungeon Lords is. He was complaining that some gamers claimed that it was these things.

You did not contribute anything worthwhile to the discussion. You just wrote an insult. Insulting someone what kind standard is that?

Mr Skeletor wrote:
So really the outcome of this thread is moot.

Then just keep quiet.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Franco
Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
Fel1x wrote:
@Mr Skeletor
Obviously you did not take the time watch section of the video.


True, my opinion was based on what the OP claimed.

Quote:
You did not contribute anything worthwhile to the discussion.


I disagree. If you want to see posts that are a waste of time just take a look at these boring ones about my behaviour.

Quote:
You just wrote an insult. Insulting someone what kind standard is that?


Insulted who? Tom? I'm not sure how telling someone they are talking out their ass is an insult, but then I don't live in Candyland. I'm pretty sure Tom will get over it in 3 seconds.

I also think you missed the entire point of my post, which doesn't surprise me.

Quote:
Mr Skeletor wrote:
So really the outcome of this thread is moot.

Then just keep quiet.


You didn't say please.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barton Campbell
United States
Jersey City
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't agree with anything Tom says because I'm a hardcore wargamer. That doesn't stop me from enjoying his videos and his opinions.

People who don't like Tom Vasel are a bunch of cry babies. If you don't like it, don't watch. I see no reason to put someone else down just because you don't agree with them.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The One
United Kingdom
Bristol
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Fel1x wrote:
You did not contribute anything worthwhile to the discussion. You just wrote an insult. Insulting someone what kind standard is that?


shake

His comments made me smile, which made it worth my while to take the time to read this thread. Who are you to say what people can post?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Carroll
United States
Urbana
Illinois
flag msg tools
Soli Deo Gloria!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tom Vasel Killed my Dog, Buried my Sister ALIVE, and More
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Roundhill
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmb
Fel1x wrote:
I think know that Tom knows the kind of game it is, as you do.

But he has encounters a number of players that do not know that or that say Dungeon Lords=Dungeon Crawler. That is what upsets him.


What other people think about the game should not factor into whether a game is overrated. Their explanations for why Dungeon Lords and Eclipse are overrated were both weak, weak, weak - if these games are Euros then Tom should rank them as Euros and not judge them otherwise.

Most of their explanations were simply "This game is boring", which is not a good reason. This video tells me that Tom Vasel is a poor source of reviews *for me*.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dr Who
msg tools
mb
why must we have so many threads about Tom.....??
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Lovell
United States
Edgewood
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Anjohl wrote:
Why would anyone care about what a guy who is addicted to board games, and gets them for free thinks? This guy jumped the shark years ago.


We've already confirmed in a previous thread on another game that your opinions aren't very accurate.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.