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Subject: Is this really an Expansion? rss

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Wystan Benbow
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This title seems to now be listed as an Expansion to 1830; I am not sure that is really the case. It does need the 1830 tiles to be played. Curious what other people think, or if an admin can chime in on why it was changed (I listed the game & did not list it as an expansion).

It doesn't really matter, but does affect how I track things in my inventories....
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JR
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Re: Is this really an Expansion.
I suppose the argument for expansion classification would be that this game is strictly not playable on its own. It depends both on rules and components from 1830. For that reason, it presumably doesn't classify as a standalone game. I can understand this reasoning, though at the same time I don't personally see this as an expansion at all because a large number of 18XX games already borrow from 1830's rules and borrowing the existing tiles is presumably just to simplify production of this title which, being a Winsome, is geared more at exposing the new design to train gamers than it is at selling to passers by in shop windows.
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Stephen Smith
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Re: Is this really an Expansion.
There are also a number of other 18xx designs that require the tiles from 1830 in order to play them.
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Jim Knight
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Re: Is this really an Expansion.
Does 1879 extend 1830 by adding additional trains, companies, money track or play mechanism, e.g. bonuses for completing routes or picking up/delivering commodities?

If the answer is yes to any of these then it's an expansion. If the answer is no then it's a different game and should be categorised that way. (It just happens to use some rules or components obtained from 1830).
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Stephen Smith
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Re: Is this really an Expansion.
jimnite wrote:
Does 1879 extend 1830 by adding additional trains, companies, money track or play mechanism, e.g. bonuses for completing routes or picking up/delivering commodities?

If the answer is yes to any of these then it's an expansion. If the answer is no then it's a different game and should be categorised that way. (It just happens to use some rules or components obtained from 1830).

The answer is no. It doesn't add anything to 1830.
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Eric Flood
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Re: Is this really an Expansion.
Age of Steam expansions also utilize the AoS components and rules, but not the map, without adding additional share complexity, train limits, or production charts...
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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Re: Is this really an Expansion.
seppo21 wrote:
jimnite wrote:
Does 1879 extend 1830 by adding additional trains, companies, money track or play mechanism, e.g. bonuses for completing routes or picking up/delivering commodities?

If the answer is yes to any of these then it's an expansion. If the answer is no then it's a different game and should be categorised that way. (It just happens to use some rules or components obtained from 1830).

The answer is no. It doesn't add anything to 1830.


There are other games in the database which are very close to 1830. Notably, the description for 18Kaas says, in part,
Quote:
Though this uses components of 1830 this is not an expansion, but is a separate standalone game.


If 1879 isn't seen as a real game then the whole 18xx family needs to be revisited and reclassified.

Different map, different company roster... borrowing components doesn't make a game an expansion, otherwise most of the Winsome games would fail to qualify.
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Eugene
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Re: Is this really an Expansion.
Consider: If 1879 were picked up by another publisher, it would come with tiles. Would it still be classified an 1830 expansion?
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Bruce Murphy
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Re: Is this really an Expansion.
It's not uncommon for unfortunate things to happen to Winsome titles in the BGG database. This is not an expansion.

B>
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Mikko Saari
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Re: Is this really an Expansion.
Well, I submitted a correction, hopefully it'll go through.
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Brian
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Re: Is this really an Expansion.
I think the clearest logic for calling this an expansion is that the rules are presented as a list of changes to 1830 and are not by themselves playable. Missing gameplay components are less of a good argument. Not that it matters much (to me) what it's called one way or the other.
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Brandon M
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I think if you applied any reasonable, objective "is this an expansion" test, you'd have to call this an expansion. It is in the same way that Ticket to Ride and Power Grid map packs are.

But if you apply the "I know it when I see it" test, this is a separate game that just doesn't come with all of the components necessary to play.

I would call this a game, not an expansion.
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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NotJeff wrote:
I think the clearest logic for calling this an expansion is that the rules are presented as a list of changes to 1830 and are not by themselves playable. Missing gameplay components are less of a good argument. Not that it matters much (to me) what it's called one way or the other.


There are other 18xx games whose rules are presented as deltas from a common base -- usually 1830 but there's a Japanese game whose rules are a delta from 1856.
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This is more like a Cheapass Games BYO pieces thing than an expansion.
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Bruce Murphy
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BrenoK wrote:
I would classify this as an expansion, if only to keep it from happening that single outside possibility of a person getting this game and not being able to play it by itself. Very unlikelym but still...

I'm ok with reclassifying 18kaas and so on.


People stumbling across limited-run Winsome prints hasn't historically been an issue.

B>

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Wystan Benbow
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msaari wrote:
Well, I submitted a correction, hopefully it'll go through.


Looks like that did the trick. Thanks!

 
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Mikko Saari
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Somebody else got it first, I got a decline note for "Duplicate correction". Well, I've never seen that one before...
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