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Subject: Suggestions Requested on Collective OP1 Build - Fed Dom rss

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Dave C
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So, I had this great build lined up for OP1, until I re-totaled my points and realized that I had 1 point too many! So, now I have to cut something, though I'd prefer to find a way to keep the same number of upgrades and just drop a point. Here's my current build:

U.S.S. Enterprise [TOS] (22)
Flagship Indep. Klingon (10) [+1 Att/Def/Hull]
Kathryn Janeway (5)
Breen Aide (3)
Breen Aide (3)
Dmitri Valtane (3)
Goval (1)
Positron Beam (2)
Ship SP: 49

Koranak (26)
Weyoun 7 (5)
Boheeka (1)
Amat'Igan (2)
Shroud (1)
Shroud (1)
Dorsal Weapons Array (3)
Dorsal Weapons Array (3)
Ship SP: 42

Total SP: 91

What I like about this build is that I get to run the flagship Janewayprise, something I haven't had the chance to do yet (I only recently got the Flagship cards, and didn't want to run such a Captain-dependent build in the Arena). Also, I've got a lot there for the Borg to assimilate before my ships start really hurting, with Shroud and Goval both providing some extra protection, and on both ships I can afford to lose a couple upgrades before I'm hurting. Also, I feel like I've got a decent attack (the Janewayprise is weaker on that but should give me quality dice and also has good defense).

My initial thought is to just drop one of the DWA's, and swap it out for some 2-point upgrade, but I can't really think of anything overly useful (except maybe Ixtana'Rax?). Alternatively, I could always just drop one of the shrouds, though I like the protection they're providing. I'm not overly found of discard cards for this scenario, so I could just drop the Positron Beam, but it's pretty much the only non-attack-screw-with-my-opponent card I have, doesn't require an action, and makes for decent BCT fodder.

So, thoughts?

P.S. I have no OP ships except the Gorn, 1 of every retail ship with a few exceptions (2x all Dominion), and would prefer to limit my factions to what is already there if reasonably possible.
 
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Kevin Roberson
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First thoughts: It'll probably ruin klingons and romulans like nobody's business. It'll probably get ripped to shreds by Borg/Soong builds.

Given the above, it's up to your knowledge of your local meta. It has very consistent damage, even against cloaks. But the problem is, it's not all about the BCT. You do need to survive and you do need to kill things. Can it outmaneuver a Klingon and do really consistent damage to a cloaked ship? Yeah. Can it outgun a federation build centered around Voyager? Maybe. Can it power down a Borg Sphere that survives the BCT by feeding it YOUR upgrades? Hmmm.

Also, it looks like you think you'll be running 4 scan tokens all the time yes? Consider how much longevity you gain by just swapping a Breen Aide and Goval for Tom Paris and going with 2 scans and 2 Evasives every round.

Oh and just to make sure you're aware of this, Amat'igan has no interaction with the BCT. His text specifies that he stops enemy upgrades, the BCT is not using an upgrade. He's a perfectly good card in his own right, though, so don't drop him.
 
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Dave C
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Thanks Turbowombat!

Turbowombat wrote:
First thoughts: It'll probably ruin klingons and romulans like nobody's business. It'll probably get ripped to shreds by Borg/Soong builds.
Given the above, it's up to your knowledge of your local meta. It has very consistent damage, even against cloaks. But the problem is, it's not all about the BCT. You do need to survive and you do need to kill things. Can it outmaneuver a Klingon and do really consistent damage to a cloaked ship? Yeah. Can it outgun a federation build centered around Voyager? Maybe. Can it power down a Borg Sphere that survives the BCT by feeding it YOUR upgrades? Hmmm.

I haven't actually played yet at the store where I'll be using this build, but Borg are restricted to faction pure there (though not sure how that'll affect Soong), and apparently most players prefer not to run them by choice, so I don't anticipate too many spheres/cubes. Ass Tubes don't scare me too much since they're action-intensive, and I've got at least 1 buffer on either ship, which should give me some coverage if my opponent brought some form of crew-ganker. I'm hoping to do a play-test this weekend against a friend who will most likely be running Voyager, so I guess I'll see what happens there.

Turbowombat wrote:
Also, it looks like you think you'll be running 4 scan tokens all the time yes? Consider how much longevity you gain by just swapping a Breen Aide and Goval for Tom Paris and going with 2 scans and 2 Evasives every round.

I plan to run 2 Scans and 2 Evades every round. The 2nd Breen aide is there because (1) he's cheap, (2) having two and Dmitri will give me options each roll in terms of which I use, and (3) having 3 scan-based crew will allow me to lose one of them without any substantial impact on my offensive capabilities.

Turbowombat wrote:
Oh and just to make sure you're aware of this, Amat'igan has no interaction with the BCT. His text specifies that he stops enemy upgrades, the BCT is not using an upgrade. He's a perfectly good card in his own right, though, so don't drop him.

I've got him there for the extra defense. (I had originally thought he'd stop the BCT from taking Boheeka, then read on here he wouldn't, but decided to keep him anyway for the defensive boost).

---

In terms of how to bring this down to 90pts, your mention of Tom (who I only excluded as he costs as much as 2 other crew) makes me think about dropping the Positron Beam and a Breen Aide in order to squeeze him in. Only downside to this is that the BCT would begin to affect (i.e. reduce my offensive/defensive capabilities) sooner.
 
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With a 180 front arc, I feel like 2 DWA's is definitely too many. Unless I've chosen to joust an opponent straight on, I've never really had much problem keeping a target in my front arc for most of the a game.

I've noticed that Lumat'Ukan doesn't get as much credit as he deserves. The ability to switch the ship you have target locked is a pretty big deal, especially if you think you are about to destroy the locked ship and don't need the reroll.

But the simplest solution might be to drop a DWA and take Disobey orders for Janeway. The other option is taking Invaluable Advice on Weyoun, but that came with the Raev Larst, which you mentioned you don't have.
 
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Dave C
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Hero_guy wrote:
With a 180 front arc, I feel like 2 DWA's is definitely too many. Unless I've chosen to joust an opponent straight on, I've never really had much problem keeping a target in my front arc for most of the a game.

I've noticed that Lumat'Ukan doesn't get as much credit as he deserves. The ability to switch the ship you have target locked is a pretty big deal, especially if you think you are about to destroy the locked ship and don't need the reroll.

But the simplest solution might be to drop a DWA and take Disobey orders for Janeway. The other option is taking Invaluable Advice on Weyoun, but that came with the Raev Larst, which you mentioned you don't have.

Unfortunately Disobey Orders came with the Sutherland, so I don't have that either.

I like upgrades that don't get the credit they deserve, so you've sold me on Lumat'Ukan... Goodbye DWA #2, Hello Lumat'Ukan.

Thanks for help. I usually do okay coming up with my builds, but sometimes it's like I get blinders on and then I have a hard time adjusting things once I've discovered (3 days later) that I can't add.
 
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dprcooke wrote:
Hero_guy wrote:
With a 180 front arc, I feel like 2 DWA's is definitely too many. Unless I've chosen to joust an opponent straight on, I've never really had much problem keeping a target in my front arc for most of the a game.

I've noticed that Lumat'Ukan doesn't get as much credit as he deserves. The ability to switch the ship you have target locked is a pretty big deal, especially if you think you are about to destroy the locked ship and don't need the reroll.

But the simplest solution might be to drop a DWA and take Disobey orders for Janeway. The other option is taking Invaluable Advice on Weyoun, but that came with the Raev Larst, which you mentioned you don't have.

Unfortunately Disobey Orders came with the Sutherland, so I don't have that either.

I like upgrades that don't get the credit they deserve, so you've sold me on Lumat'Ukan... Goodbye DWA #2, Hello Lumat'Ukan.

Thanks for help. I usually do okay coming up with my builds, but sometimes it's like I get blinders on and then I have a hard time adjusting things once I've discovered (3 days later) that I can't add.


Just remember that you still need to choose your target locks carefully since Lumat is a discard (or you can use Shroud).
 
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Kevin Roberson
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dprcooke wrote:

I haven't actually played yet at the store where I'll be using this build, but Borg are restricted to faction pure there (though not sure how that'll affect Soong), and apparently most players prefer not to run them by choice, so I don't anticipate too many spheres/cubes. Ass Tubes don't scare me too much since they're action-intensive, and I've got at least 1 buffer on either ship, which should give me some coverage if my opponent brought some form of crew-ganker. I'm hoping to do a play-test this weekend against a friend who will most likely be running Voyager, so I guess I'll see what happens there.


So that's a big help. Sounds like the build should work out then. I think its Kryptonite is still Crosis, though. I'm not sure how faction pure borg and the Soong work together, but someone could do independent (no borg) Soong+indyFlagship(fed)+Lore+Crosis+Goval+Li Nalas+Centurioun and pull your crew like a zipper. And such a build would be fairly immune to the BCT too because it would necessarily not lose Crosis to it till it was done.

But it sounds like your meta probably won't do that.
 
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Dave C
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Hero_guy wrote:
Just remember that you still need to choose your target locks carefully since Lumat is a discard (or you can use Shroud).

For sure. I'd prefer to keep him around to appease the BCT, but will certainly make good use of him if I need to.

Turbowombat wrote:
dprcooke wrote:

I haven't actually played yet at the store where I'll be using this build, but Borg are restricted to faction pure there (though not sure how that'll affect Soong), and apparently most players prefer not to run them by choice, so I don't anticipate too many spheres/cubes. Ass Tubes don't scare me too much since they're action-intensive, and I've got at least 1 buffer on either ship, which should give me some coverage if my opponent brought some form of crew-ganker. I'm hoping to do a play-test this weekend against a friend who will most likely be running Voyager, so I guess I'll see what happens there.

So that's a big help. Sounds like the build should work out then. I think its Kryptonite is still Crosis, though. I'm not sure how faction pure borg and the Soong work together, but someone could do independent (no borg) Soong+indyFlagship(fed)+Lore+Crosis+Goval+Li Nalas+Centurioun and pull your crew like a zipper. And such a build would be fairly immune to the BCT too because it would necessarily not lose Crosis to it till it was done.

But it sounds like your meta probably won't do that.

I could potentially see a Crosis+[keep Crosis] combo, so I think I'll likely just have to accept the risk. (To be honest, I might use my build even if I knew someone would be running this just because I've decided that it will be fun to fly.) If it fails horribly, I'll be playing at another store 6 days later, and won't have access to the Flagship for that event (I'll likely be letting a friend use it), so I'll have the chance to change things up.
 
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