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Dead of Winter: A Crossroads Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: The Double Turn rss

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Ken Marley
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One interesting feature of DoW is the double turn. Since the first play marker passes to the right the turn order in a four play game with Player A, player B, player C, and player D would be:

ABCD
DABC
CDAB
BCDA
ABCD

The interesting thing is that the player that goes last in a turn goes first in the next turn creating a "double" turn.

The double turn is especially important for a traitor to make his move. Moving last the traitor could:

1) empty the food supply (-1 morale, at least)
2) spike the crisis (-1 or -2 morale)
3) then on this and the next turn run around trying to kill wounded survivors (-1 morale each) this and the next turn.

By going last the other players can not stop 1 or 2. The problem with this strategy is that the traitor needs to have enough cards in hand to spike the crisis and meet his main objective. Although sometimes it will be as simple is not playing into the crisis when promising to do so.

DoW has so few rounds 5-6 usually that a traitor might only get one turn going last with the double turn. They should work very hard to be ready with their other objective so that when their double turn happens they are ready.


How can loyal players guard against the double turn traitor move?

1) keep morale high 4+ if possible. Do not let anyone argue for letting morale slide to the 2-3 range. If it drops to the danger zone try to get it back up.

2) put only enough food in the colony that you need. Putting extra food in the colony only helps the traitor.

3) if you suspect the player going last, consider putting in extra cards towards the crisis, or even exiling them in extreme cases.

The double turn is an opportunity for any traitor or pseudo-traitor to cause trouble for the colony.
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Brandon M
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“Games give you a chance to excel, and if you're playing in good company you don't even mind if you lose because you had the enjoyment of the company during the course of the game.” ― Gary Gygax
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In a 3 player game, if properly set up by circumstances and having their non-morale = 0 goal achieved, there is the opportunity for the double exile.

Betrayer gets one of the "loyal" players exiled at the end of the round. Maybe they have acting suspicious, "forgot" to contribute to the crisis, and a silver tongued betrayer can pull this off.

Then at the beginning of the next round, the betrayer is the start player and can break ties on all votes (including exile).

Call the other loyal player up for exile. That vote will be 1 to 1. 2 loyal players exiled, game ends.

This can be done with 5 players as well, but you would need to have at least one of the loyal players convinced for a second exile vote immediately following the first.
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trevor

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Well this is true with any player count you are going to get a double turn. I'm not a big fan of passing first player to the right if turn order is clockwise...........there will always be a double turn
 
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JonnyRotten
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Yes, but it does help with downtime of being the first player, and then being the last player, and having 8 turns in between your turn (in a 5 player game).
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Brandon M
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Nobody said it wasn't true for all player counts. I was simply saying the double turn is useful in a three player game for a double exile move.
 
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trevor

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I wasn't saying you did, just the OP made it sound like "in 4 player games the last player gets a double turn". I was just pointing out this is true always, no need to get defensive
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Brandon M
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bigGameGeek wrote:
I wasn't saying you did, just the OP made it sound like "in 4 player games the last player gets a double turn". I was just pointing out this is true always, no need to get defensive


Ah. I even went back to the OP to see if a number was mentioned. That's what I get for checking things while I am waking up.

I actually wrote that response around 8am EDT this morning and posted it a few hours later after falling back asleep, waking up, and checking my phone and seeing that it hadn't been submitted.
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Ken Marley
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Yes of course this is true for all player counts. I was just giving an example with 4 players. Sorry I was to lazy to give more examples.

For those who wish examples for 3 and 5 here goes:

3 Player:
ABC
CAB
BAC
ABC
CAB


5 player:
ABCDE
EABCD
DEABC
CDEAB
BCDEA


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trevor

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No worries guys!

But back to the original point, I'm not really a huge fan of this idea. Double turns seems a little unfair, esp. because I think a huge advantage can be had by the traitor.
But passing left doesn't really solve it either.....like you said this requires a longer wait for the first player
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Ken Marley
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I actually like the double turn. It creates gameplay tension and an opportunity for the traitor.
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Bill Reed
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This breaks the game. I don't want it anymore.



joking
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Dennis Schwarz
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maybe on the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one....
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wmreed wrote:
This breaks the game. I don't want it anymore.
joking


Maybe it breaks the game, possibly not (the game was tested...).
I am still astonished that some still judge a game few have yet played so harshly, but to each his own, I guess. whistle
 
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Mark Carter
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Neva Kee wrote:
wmreed wrote:
This breaks the game. I don't want it anymore.
joking


Maybe it breaks the game, possibly not (the game was tested...).
I am still astonished that some still judge a game few have yet played so harshly, but to each his own, I guess. whistle


You quoted him and didn't see the tiny message?
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Bill Reed
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Lol. I assumed he was playing along.

I LOVE Dead of Winter! I've played it 3 times, twice in playtest versions and once at a Origins. It's my most anticipated game of the summer.
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Dennis Schwarz
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maybe on the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one....
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oops - I guess the smallprint was too small, but after the amount of discussion this already generated, I didn't wonder about the truth of the statement anymore...
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Andrew Pillow
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The counter to the three player (or more) double exile play is never agree to exile anyone on the first of a double turn. There is no situation reason to do so exile a player on that turn that I can think of. If the nominated person is a traitor then you could exile in the second part of the double turn and they still wouldn't be able to cause any problems, same with frostbite wounds situations (like in the board with life game). I can't see a reason a non-traitor would put up a vote then. Especially as the rest of the group can just say wait till next turn...
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Ken Marley
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Andrew good point! The only argument I can see for a person going last to get an exile vote is to argue that "we are one card short of the crisis", and we "need" to exile someone to make the crisis pass.

I still think it is not worth the risk, and I agree that exiling anyone on the last turn of a round is a mistake. Now 2nd to last turn, that is the time to exile someone suspicious.
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Leif Smart
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I think being able to call for an exile vote in the colony phase would help mitigate how much damage a traitor can do in a double turn.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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leifsmart wrote:
I think being able to call for an exile vote in the colony phase would help mitigate how much damage a traitor can do in a double turn.


Kind of a, "Okay, is there anyone that wants to call for an exile...?"
 
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