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Subject: [Deck Idea] ChiLoGraphics rss

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Michael Redston
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NBN: Making News (Core Set)

Agenda (10)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
2x Market Research (Fear and Loathing)
2x Private Security Force (Core Set)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (6)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
3x Primary Transmission Dish (Upstalk)

Upgrade (3)
3x ChiLo City Grid (Trace Amount)

Operation (14)
2x Bad Times (Upstalk)
2x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Psychographics (Core Set)
1x Scorched Earth (Core Set) ••••
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (3)
3x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (5)
2x Lotus Field (Upstalk) ••
3x Viper (Cyber Exodus) •••

Sentry (8)
3x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) ••••••
3x Data Raven (Core Set)
2x Muckraker (Second Thoughts)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Upstalk

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

ChiLoGraphics
The basic idea behind this (which is to score agendas from hand using Psychographics and/or PSF lock) is far from original, however the route it takes to get there is (I think).

Basically, instead of Midseason you have many pieces of tracing ICE, which are supported by ChiLo, Pirmary Transmission Dish and your ID. ChiLo's trash cost is terrifying, so unless you face Whizzard it's unlikely to ever be trashed (and it'll even give Whizzard a run for his money).

Once the runner is swimming with tags (which shouldn't take long) you can punish him with Closed Accounts, Bad Times and the occasional Scorched Earth. Economy is rather light, but I think it's fine given that you'll never spend real money on traces, and also the fact you don't have to worry about SanSan or Biotic Labor. ICE is fairly cheap too, and Caduceus can even make you money.

In conclusion, I have no idea if this deck is better (or even on par) with PsychoSeason, but I'll be sure to test it out once Upstalk is released. What do you think? do you have any immediate refinements on mind by looking at the list?
 
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Peter Hopkins
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Re: [Theorycrafting] ChiLoGraphics
I don't know whether I ever get a singleton Scorched... Against a tagging deck, who is going to run with less than 4 cards in hand or not search up a Plascrete? Even if they don't see it, they're going to assume you're running it (they have to, pretty much), and 4 influence is a lot to pay to just take some counters off a Plascrete, or make the runner discard some cards. Isn't there something better to spend that 4 inf on?
 
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mplain
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Re: [Theorycrafting] ChiLoGraphics
Well, a singleton Scorch does have good synergy with 3x Sweeps Week...

The idea of this Tag Storm deck is not new, but I've never seen it on the tournament scene.
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Allan Clements
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Re: [Theorycrafting] ChiLoGraphics
Or the runner just breaks your ice. I think you need to run bernice, or ash to get more reliable traces during runs for Chilo to trigger.
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Captain Frisk
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Re: [Theorycrafting] ChiLoGraphics
Kamakaze wrote:
Or the runner just breaks your ice. I think you need to run bernice, or ash to get more reliable traces during runs for Chilo to trigger.


This. It's very hard to land tags via ice because it can be broken.

Hunter is potentially an obvious include here. Extremely taxing for a 1 cost rez ice out of making news. Extra bad with Chilo.
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Eric Bezanson
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Re: [Theorycrafting] ChiLoGraphics
I have never given chilo a hard run...so there is that.

My thoughts:

If you are going to go all-in on chilo I think you need to go heavy on asset econ. You are more likely to land a tag with cheap taxing ice (like a hunter) early in the game when they are running your assets to check on it. If that is something that can happen regularly it gives you the early game slow-down you're looking for (lets face it they're generally not going to just allow tags to float).

Because they probably aren't going to float your tags (because you aren't going to drop an ass-load on them a-la midseasons) it is possible this type of deck needs big brother.

Ice to consider (not saying they'll work %100) is enigma and hourglass. Whatever you can find that causes them to lose clicks on face-checking so you're more likely to have an opportunity to work a tag.

I'm with frisk on bernice or ash. Gives you a trace and something to disguise an agenda (or vice-versa) to put on top of a chilo.

You could also try broadcast square but I don't think that technique is viable yet (if ever). basically they'd run your grim, muckraker, or whatever you splash that's illicit. On rez you run the trace from broadcast square (which is a trace occuring during the run) and get a tag on them.

I think the PSF would require more layering to really be a threat. One scorched is nice but layering the PSF with snoop or invasion of privacy (maybe) could make scoring it more of a threat. However with the whole chilo thing there might not be enough deckspace for all that.

Draco?

I hope you keep at it and make it work!
 
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Michael Redston
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Re: [Theorycrafting] ChiLoGraphics
What am I supposed to do with suggestions to add certain cards yet with no suggestions on what cards to cut? Suggesting cards to add is easy, hell, before trimming the deck to 49 cards it had like 60. The best form of constructive criticism looks something like this:

-NxCard X
-NxCard Y
-NxCard Z

+NxCard A
+NxCard B
+NxCard Z

I appreciate your suggestions, really I do, but I haven't the faintest how to implement them. Deckspace is already tight.
 
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Grant Cain
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Re: [Theorycrafting] ChiLoGraphics
kroen wrote:
What am I supposed to do with suggestions to add certain cards yet with no suggestions on what cards to cut? Suggesting cards to add is easy, hell, before trimming the deck to 49 cards it had like 60. The best form of constructive criticism looks something like this:

-NxCard X
-NxCard Y
-NxCard Z

+NxCard A
+NxCard B
+NxCard Z

I appreciate your suggestions, really I do, but I haven't the faintest how to implement them. Deckspace is already tight.


Personally, I'd go with:
- 1 scorched (for reasons above)
- 2 Lotus Field (if you are looking to land tags and have little money to do so, why rez a 5 cost ice that drains your hampered econ and doesn't hurt the runner? Not everyone runs Yog.0)
- 1 Jackson
- 1 Primary Transmission Dish

Add 2 hunters and 3 econ cards of your choice (Pad? Marked Accounts? Private Contracts?)
Try that out and let us know how it goes.
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Allan Clements
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Re: [Theorycrafting] ChiLoGraphics
I would switch Scorched Earth and one Bad times for 2x Ash.

I would probably also switch Wraparound for TMI. TMI can trigger Chilo when you rez it which can be a pretty nice surprise. Draco is also quite nice so perhaps switch in that for one of the Ravens. Draco will still be useful, but Data Raven will not end the run if they start ignoring tags.
 
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Phillip Edwards
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Re: [Theorycrafting] ChiLoGraphics
If I were you, I would start using 'Untested Deck' instead of 'Theorycrafting', as it better represents the post.
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Captain Frisk
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Re: [Theorycrafting] ChiLoGraphics
kroen wrote:

In conclusion, I have no idea if this deck is better (or even on par) with PsychoSeason, but I'll be sure to test it out once Upstalk is released. What do you think? do you have any immediate refinements on mind by looking at the list?


Whats stopping you from testing it now? Upstalk is on OCTGN right? You could proxy these cards to play with your bro.
 
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Brodie
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Re: [Theorycrafting] ChiLoGraphics
I feel like TMI becomes a much better choice for Making News with a Primary Transmission Dish out. I don't know what I'd cut for it, but I think putting 2 in might be worth a shot. Having a strength 5 Barrier is nothing to sneeze at.
 
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Michael Redston
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Robotron5673 wrote:
If I were you, I would start using 'Untested Deck' instead of 'Theorycrafting', as it better represents the post.

Is "deck idea" cool?
Captain_Frisk wrote:
Whats stopping you from testing it now? Upstalk is on OCTGN right? You could proxy these cards to play with your bro.

Printer ink is expensive you know. And I don't really have time for OCTGN (cause of Hearthstone).
 
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Brodie
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kroen wrote:
Robotron5673 wrote:
If I were you, I would start using 'Untested Deck' instead of 'Theorycrafting', as it better represents the post.

Is "deck idea" cool?


Hm! I think [Deck Idea] is probably the best suggestion for these types of threads yet.
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Zeb
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Agent Archer wrote:
kroen wrote:
Robotron5673 wrote:
If I were you, I would start using 'Untested Deck' instead of 'Theorycrafting', as it better represents the post.

Is "deck idea" cool?


Hm! I think [Deck Idea] is probably the best suggestion for these types of threads yet.


[Deck Idea] is a much better fit than [Theorycrafting], I agree.
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Phillip (pj) Fry
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-2 bad times
-2 Lotus fields
-1 scorched
+3 snare
+2 hunters
snare tags you know. Also theorycrafting is cool. I know how using big words can upset people, but after seeing the first "theorycrafting" why gripe about the ones after, you know what they are going to be. Also a deck idea to me is, "hey guys, what do you think about putting 3 hard at works in my Andy deck?" Just my 2 cents.
 
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Matthew Guze
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kroen wrote:
Captain_Frisk wrote:
Whats stopping you from testing it now? Upstalk is on OCTGN right? You could proxy these cards to play with your bro.

Printer ink is expensive you know. And I don't really have time for OCTGN (cause of Hearthstone).


Who said anything about a printer? Pens are cheap and work just fine. If both of you know everything about the card, you can even leave out a bunch of the info to save on writing. I have a friend that simply writes "datasucker" with nothing else on it on a sliver of paper and sleeves them in with Magic cards. It's pretty effective.
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Michael Redston
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talking_chicken wrote:
Who said anything about a printer? Pens are cheap and work just fine. If both of you know everything about the card, you can even leave out a bunch of the info to save on writing. I have a friend that simply writes "datasucker" with nothing else on it on a sliver of paper and sleeves them in with Magic cards. It's pretty effective.

A little part of me died reading this comment. I can barely bring myself to play with printed proxies, and you want to me to play with blank sheets of paper with the card's name? People are different you know. Not everyone have the same standards as you or your friend.
 
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Daine .

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You want more scorches, not fewer. Cut the lotus fields and a caduceus for another.

Agreed on hunter and TMI as well. Cut a data raven or two to make some room.

I think this deck is going to be pretty low to the ground economically, but that's fine. Don't cut your meat out for more economy. The runner will either have to avoid and clear tags, slowing them down immensely, or they'll float them and you just need to click for credits and dog for your punishment.
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R N
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The origional Flytrap did not have access to Midseason, so the approach isn't novel either. However, Flytrap hasn't been updated for a very long time and it would be cool to see it come back!

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/946021/deck-nbn-flytrap

EDIT;
I think some of the important missing pieces;
1. Drip economy to take advantage of the midgame stall created by PSF.
2. Freelancer to shut off the runner's drip economy.
3. Big Brother to make tags stick around.
 
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Eric Bezanson
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Because im not in the habit of telling people what to do or think. I also don't know what is your preferred playstyle, although chilo is "trapish" by nature I suppose.

Speaking for myself


kroen wrote:
What am I supposed to do with suggestions to add certain cards yet with no suggestions on what cards to cut? Suggesting cards to add is easy, hell, before trimming the deck to 49 cards it had like 60. The best form of constructive criticism looks something like this:

-NxCard X
-NxCard Y
-NxCard Z

+NxCard A
+NxCard B
+NxCard Z

I appreciate your suggestions, really I do, but I haven't the faintest how to implement them. Deckspace is already tight.
 
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Matthew Guze
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kroen wrote:
talking_chicken wrote:
Who said anything about a printer? Pens are cheap and work just fine. If both of you know everything about the card, you can even leave out a bunch of the info to save on writing. I have a friend that simply writes "datasucker" with nothing else on it on a sliver of paper and sleeves them in with Magic cards. It's pretty effective.

A little part of me died reading this comment. I can barely bring myself to play with printed proxies, and you want to me to play with blank sheets of paper with the card's name? People are different you know. Not everyone have the same standards as you or your friend.


Look, I was just trying to be helpful, but if you're just going to give me a holier-than-thou attitude like that then I'm not sure why I bothered. I was trying to give you a way to help give your deck some credibility, mostly because I respect posted decks a lot more if the person making the deck actually made the effort to try it out, and I'm sure others feel the same way. If you can't be bothered to try a deck out (which should take no more than an hour, even online) then don't expect people to be bothered to read it. Not everyone has the same standards as you.

Also, I don't proxy myself but I know enough people that do, so I still have to deal with it and it's not nearly as bad as you think.
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Michael Redston
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No one is forcing your into these threads. If you feel so strongly against untested decks, simply ignore threads with the tagline [Deck Idea]. Problem solved.
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Daniel Wray
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kroen wrote:
No one is forcing your into these threads. If you feel so strongly against untested decks, simply ignore threads with the tagline [Deck Idea]. Problem solved.


I think the main issue is when you ask for feedback and advice and then react negatively when it is given. You could just as easily have said "Thanks for the suggestion, I just have a real aversion to proxies." We have no way to know your tastes, and you spoke like we should, for some reason.
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Matthew Guze
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I generally do. I only came into this thread because I had messed around with ChiLo a long time ago with some decent success and I was curious to see what similarities there were. I saw the conversation and thought I could be helpful. Don't worry, it's a mistake I'll be sure to never make again.
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