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The Card Game of Oz» Forums » General

Subject: Orion's Bell Clears the Air rss

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Montgomery Van
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In the Board Game Design section of this site Jim O'Connor unleashed a slate cleaning diatribe this morning against Game Salute's handling of this game. Those of us that have followed this saga will not be too surprised, but it is still rather explosive stuff.

Here.

As a backer and former staunch defender/critic of the game, I appreciate Mr. O'Connor offering a peek behind the curtain - no matter how troubling the sight. Unfortunately, more questions have been raised.

Was this post a signal that Orion's Bell have washed their hands of this game? If not, why has there not been one designer sighting in this section of BGG since May 20th? Two months of continued silence seems an awful long time for a somewhat new game.

Despite the generous printing of replacement cards done on his dime, Orion's Bell has allowed other - more correctable issues to remain.

As example, I attempted to 'reimagine' the busted story packs through some pretty strenuous game testing. I even posted the work here in effort to help out fellow Oz fans. The designer's response was to say that the printed story packs were not at all what he would have done. Figuring that I was wasting my time if the designer could do something better, I implored him to release a listing for the packs as he envisioned them. He said that we could just make our own.

Isn't that essentially what Game Salute did in this mess, Jim? To wash their hands and claim that you should fix it yourself?

Now, before you (once again) suggest that I am being nasty by attacking you, please do take a step back and look at it from our point of view. We supported you and your game. From where I am standing, your frustration with Game Salute has caused you to (once again) play the silent treatment with those of us that cared.

I mean, heck -- you went to a bunch of game designers with this latest revelation. Couldn't you have cross posted it to those of us that, you know... supported you?
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brian
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From my perspective, he hasn't abandoned the game. It appears it was a labor of love for many long years. For him to take it upon himself to post "correct rules" and offer replacement cards seems a genuine show of faith in the game.

I would imagine that he hasn't posted anything on the story packs because his hands are somewhat limited. He didn't put together the story packs and so has to make something work out of what cards GS made available. Maybe this is taking it too far in the analogy department but like asking a master paint to do his great work but only giving him some broken crayons and dried out paint.

If you want a playtested story pack, he is going to have to go back to the drawing board as well.

Not trying to defend him here but I do think he deserves a bit of slack on it. The unfortunate thing is he has a caustic personality that hasn't helped the situation either with GS or the players that have supported him. I don't know that piling on at this point will help anything.
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Montgomery Van
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I have a great deal of respect for you and your postings here at BGG, Brian. If you feel I am 'piling on', I do apologize. I did not intend on it coming across as such - but have to admit that my own frustrations with this game, designer, and publisher may have painted the tone in a harsher light than I wished.

But the facts do remain. Jim hasn't posted here since May 20th. It is pretty hard to maintain interest in something that the creator seems to have deemed not interesting enough.

Sure, frustrations with Game Salute and the business of game publishing are a pretty big deal. Then again, to those that backed it, so was this game at one point.

At least it was to me.

Live and learn, and all that.
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brian
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Mont Van wrote:
I have a great deal of respect for you and your postings here at BGG, Brian. If you feel I am 'piling on', I do apologize. I did not intend on it coming across as such - but have to admit that my own frustrations with this game, designer, and publisher may have painted the tone in a harsher light than I wished.

Sorry, I guess my own reply implied more than I felt as well! It was not so much directed at you but what I felt would be another verbal lashing in the responses that were sure to follow.

I hate to see things get ugly between gaming partners even if that is a stretch of the word in some cases. The public airing of laundry makes for an interesting read but usually does no one any good, us included.

If I were in his shoes, I probably would have done the same - walk away for a bit to clear my head. Vent and get the venom out and then get back to it. Maybe posting this on the heels of his last post will get his attention more or maybe it will send him back into hiding. Not sure.

But he has at least done what he could at personal cost to him to get the cards updated.
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Nathan Norton
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Okay, so can anyone give me a latest news on this thing? I've been following this game for a while and this is the first time I've posted on it. I love everything I see about this game except--obviously--for all the mistakes.

Have these been corrected by now in more recently produced versions of the game? I am starting to be grateful that I didn't have the dough to back this when it was on Kickstarter. I fully intend on buying this but only if/when Game Salute reprints it with corrects and with the dice thing fixed.

Thoughts?
 
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Montgomery Van
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The only way that Game Salute (re)touches/reprints this is if the Card Game of Oz explodes in overseas popularity somehow. Of course the Catch-22 is that with so many errors, I don't see a popularity explosion any time soon.

The saddest thing about this entire mess is that there IS a good game buried in that box.

... If you have the proper dice...

... If you fixed the broken story packs...

... If you snagged the corrected cards from Orion's Bell...

... If you Print-on-Demand the files provided by Orion's Bell...

... etc.

Heck, Game Salute STILL owes me one of the Series Two cards that was not in my copy! I only asked them in April, though. These things probably take time.
 
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Jeffrey D Myers
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"Always rely upon a happy mind alone." Geshe Chekhawa.
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Is there a fix for the story packs that is published and/or in testing?
 
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Montgomery Van
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peacmyer wrote:
Is there a fix for the story packs that is published and/or in testing?

Officially? No. The closest we have gotten to an official listing is being told we should make our own. Mixing and Matching, in my opinion, is another way of saying, "We can't be bothered to test this."

Not long after this games release I broke all of the series one cards down into three packs based on the original Baum book. Two of the three ended up playing well enough - but I really need to Print-on-Demand those cards that Orion's Bell provided in order to tighten the packs up.

Then again, just the fact I have to go that PoD route irks me enough not to even bother.
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Jeffrey D Myers
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"Always rely upon a happy mind alone." Geshe Chekhawa.
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Right. Is access to what you consider reasonably successful available?
 
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Montgomery Van
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peacmyer wrote:
Right. Is access to what you consider reasonably successful available?


I've geek mailed you my listings. Hopefully you find that they work well enough.
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Montgomery Van
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Orion's Bell posted this morning to his thread in the designer section of this site:

Quote:
As of Friday July 18, 2014. Game Salute will no longer sell The Card Game of Oz. What will happen to the remaining copies of the game and Series 2: The Marvelous Land of Oz is unknown.


After all of this back and forth, at least we can say we've a 'collector's copy' of this game.

Ugh.
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brian
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Mont Van wrote:
Orion's Bell posted this morning to his thread in the designer section of this site:

Quote:
As of Friday July 18, 2014. Game Salute will no longer sell The Card Game of Oz. What will happen to the remaining copies of the game and Series 2: The Marvelous Land of Oz is unknown.


After all of this back and forth, at least we can say we've a 'collector's copy' of this game.

Ugh.

Wow. Just wow. And Richard Breese wondered why I pleaded with him not to use Game Salute for Keyflower.
 
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Dennis Mc
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Wow indeed. I just found out about this game yesterday, ran out and bought a copy, preordered Series 2, started to imagine the exciting things that could be in store for later installments, then today I find out the whole thing's imploded.

Quite a rollercoaster ride. I feel very lucky to have my hands on Series 1 though.
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Montgomery Van
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Like Dennis, I've always been excited about the possibilities for future books in the series - especially the Patchwork Girl, who I've always thought was one of Baum's best characters.

Once this dust settles, I am hopeful that Orion's Bell (re)addresses his plans for the continued development of the game - but I am skeptical.

From what we've learned, it took O'Connor years (and I imagine a lot of money) to commission all of the artwork used in the first two series of cards. I suppose that a (properly managed) Kickstarter would help with the required funds for future commissions - but who knows.

It is all very unfortunate.
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Dennis Mc
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Patchwork Girl is loaded with great stuff. In Tik-Tok the heroes fall through a tube to the other side of the world. In Emerald City the Nome King recruits an army of grotesques to tunnel across the desert and into the Palace. And am I crazy, or was there some kind of submersible glass island in one of them?

The source material is very well served by this game. I would enthusiastically support a Kickstarter.
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Montgomery Van
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Densmc wrote:
...And am I crazy, or was there some kind of submersible glass island in one of them?


Glinda of Oz -> Skeezer Island, I believe.

 
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Montgomery Van
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For those not following the saga:

Dan Yarrington has posted a Game Salute slanted reply to Jim O'Connor's recent spilling of his beans.

It is all pretty sheepish, but at least there are smiles all around.

Unless, of course, you were one of those that actually purchased this game. There is no joy in Mudville for us.
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