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Subject: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane crashed over Ukraine rss

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Lee Fisher
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A Malaysian Airlines passenger plane with 295 aboard was shot down by a surface-to-air missile in Ukraine near the Russian border a day after a Ukrainian military jet was downed, according to multiple reports.

Multiple reports, including from Russia's Interfax news agency, said the Boeing 777 was shot down at cruising altitude. Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine's Interior Minister told The Associated press that the plane, carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew people onboard was shot down by a missile fired from a Buk launcher. A similar launcher was seen by Associated Press journalists near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne earlier Thursday.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
Words escape me, Did they not even try to contact the airliner, was it not on a scheduled route, just how many random idiots now have weapons in Ukraine?
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Dave G
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
Do you have a link? I saw the "shot down" angle on some non-news type sites earlier, but I hadn't seen it corroborated by a real source yet. I assume Interfax is just capitalizing on an opportunity to make Ukraine look bad.
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Dave G
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
According to CNN some low-level Ukrainian official has said they don't "exclude" the possibility it was shot down, but that seems unreliable. Especially since everyone in the area is COMPLETELY FUCKING INSANE.
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Dave G
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
Same story on NY Times--no reason to think it was shot down other than officials saying they can't "rule out" the possibility.
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Paul DeStefano
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
If it WAS shot down, this sounds like the perfect spark to ignite a major war.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
From the Wall Street Journal, who seems to have the least hysterical take on this so far:

The WSJ wrote:
The plane went down near the city of Torez in the Donetsk region while flying at a height of about 10,000 meters, according to Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's Interior Ministry.

The crash immediately sparked speculation about the cause amid fighting between Ukrainian and pro-Russia separatists. Several other planes have been downed in recent days.

Also fueling speculation is the fact that it involved Malaysia Airlines, the operator at the center of a global mystery over the disappearance of its flight in March.

The war of words kicked off immediately after the crash. In a phone call with The Wall Street Journal, Mr. Gerashchenko alleged that pro-Russia rebels had set up a ground-to-missile battery near the Russian border by the town of Snizhne.

"They clearly thought that it was a military transport plane that they were shooting at," he said. "They were the ones who did this."

His claims couldn't be verified. Klavdia Kulbatskaya, a spokeswoman for the rebel-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, said she had no information on the incident.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
Geosphere wrote:
If it WAS shot down, this sounds like the perfect spark to ignite a major war.


I'm skeptical. One "adviser" to the Grand High Mucky-Muck or whatever Ukraine calls their supreme ruler is saying it's possible.
 
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
djgutierrez77 wrote:
From the Wall Street Journal, who seems to have the least hysterical take on this so far:

The WSJ wrote:
The plane went down near the city of Torez in the Donetsk region while flying at a height of about 10,000 meters, according to Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's Interior Ministry.

The crash immediately sparked speculation about the cause amid fighting between Ukrainian and pro-Russia separatists. Several other planes have been downed in recent days.

Also fueling speculation is the fact that it involved Malaysia Airlines, the operator at the center of a global mystery over the disappearance of its flight in March.

The war of words kicked off immediately after the crash. In a phone call with The Wall Street Journal, Mr. Gerashchenko alleged that pro-Russia rebels had set up a ground-to-missile battery near the Russian border by the town of Snizhne.

"They clearly thought that it was a military transport plane that they were shooting at," he said. "They were the ones who did this."

His claims couldn't be verified. Klavdia Kulbatskaya, a spokeswoman for the rebel-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, said she had no information on the incident.
I said that plane going down over the ocean was part of Puttin's world domination plot.
 
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
slatersteven wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
From the Wall Street Journal, who seems to have the least hysterical take on this so far:

The WSJ wrote:
The plane went down near the city of Torez in the Donetsk region while flying at a height of about 10,000 meters, according to Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's Interior Ministry.

The crash immediately sparked speculation about the cause amid fighting between Ukrainian and pro-Russia separatists. Several other planes have been downed in recent days.

Also fueling speculation is the fact that it involved Malaysia Airlines, the operator at the center of a global mystery over the disappearance of its flight in March.

The war of words kicked off immediately after the crash. In a phone call with The Wall Street Journal, Mr. Gerashchenko alleged that pro-Russia rebels had set up a ground-to-missile battery near the Russian border by the town of Snizhne.

"They clearly thought that it was a military transport plane that they were shooting at," he said. "They were the ones who did this."

His claims couldn't be verified. Klavdia Kulbatskaya, a spokeswoman for the rebel-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, said she had no information on the incident.
I said that plane going down over the ocean was part of Puttin's world domination plot.


Are you an adviser to the Ukraine?
 
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
Geosphere wrote:
If it WAS shot down, this sounds like the perfect spark to ignite a major war.

Malaysia vs. Ukraine with Putin kibbitzing?
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
Interesting. It's not easy to shoot down a 777 at 33,000 feet. That would have to be some really bad ass equipment..

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
djgutierrez77 wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
If it WAS shot down, this sounds like the perfect spark to ignite a major war.


I'm skeptical. One "adviser" to the Grand High Mucky-Muck or whatever Ukraine calls their supreme ruler is saying it's possible.

I can't say I'm particularly skeptical about the possibility it was shot down. There's been multiple shutdowns by the various sides in that area recently. I'm almost certain it was an accidental shootdown by one of them. There's little reason for a plane to spontaneously crash with no warning in perfect weather midflight.

I'm skeptical about any claims about who might be responsible though.
 
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
MWChapel wrote:
Interesting. It's not easy to shoot down a 777 at 33,000 feet. That would have to be some really bad ass equipment.

If it was an SA-17 as claimed, that would be cake. A commercial jet wouldn't pose a challenge for something designed to shoot down ballistic missiles.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
MWChapel wrote:
Interesting. It's not easy to shoot down a 777 at 33,000 feet. That would have to be some really bad ass equipment..



Top Ukraine gear:

 
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
damiangerous wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
If it WAS shot down, this sounds like the perfect spark to ignite a major war.


I'm skeptical. One "adviser" to the Grand High Mucky-Muck or whatever Ukraine calls their supreme ruler is saying it's possible.

I can't say I'm particularly skeptical about the possibility it was shot down. There's been multiple shutdowns by the various sides in that area recently. I'm almost certain it was an accidental shootdown by one of them. There's little reason for a plane to spontaneously crash with no warning in perfect weather midflight.

I'm skeptical about any claims about who might be responsible though.


I'm skeptical because the entire "shot down" story seems to have come from one dubious source. If it's substantiated by more reliable sources, fine, but for now it's the equivalent of gossip.
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
djgutierrez77 wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
If it WAS shot down, this sounds like the perfect spark to ignite a major war.


I'm skeptical. One "adviser" to the Grand High Mucky-Muck or whatever Ukraine calls their supreme ruler is saying it's possible.

I can't say I'm particularly skeptical about the possibility it was shot down. There's been multiple shutdowns by the various sides in that area recently. I'm almost certain it was an accidental shootdown by one of them. There's little reason for a plane to spontaneously crash with no warning in perfect weather midflight.

I'm skeptical about any claims about who might be responsible though.


I'm skeptical because the entire "shot down" story seems to have come from one dubious source. If it's substantiated by more reliable sources, fine, but for now it's the equivalent of gossip.


Yeah good point it is not very clear.
 
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Passenger Plane shot down over Ukraine
MWChapel wrote:
Interesting. It's not easy to shoot down a 777 at 33,000 feet. That would have to be some really bad ass equipment..



Well, it's not easy for a *MANPAD* to do it, no.

But most SAM vehicles/batteries should not have an issue. Even a first-gen Kub could go it, and if they supposedly have a Buk in the area...even an SA-6 has a ceiling of nearly 50,000 feet, so...
 
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According to the New York Times, just earlier today separatists apparently had shot down another plane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-says-...

...

Also, Kremlin-backed insurgents shoot down military plane in Luhansk, killing 49 on June 14, 2014

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/kremlin-backed-insur...
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Drew1365 wrote:

I know right!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
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Russia'n cmdr Strelkov commented on downed #MH17 (thinking it was Ukrainian): "We warned - do not fly in our skies" pic.twitter.com/hkXoaD3xvT

https://twitter.com/StateOfUkraine/status/489802664264212480...

...

Sky News is reporting that Russian news sites pulled down video of separatists celebrating shooting down what they thought was “cargo jet.”

...

Hill intel sources say Russia has the capability to potentially shoot down a #MH17 but not Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/ChadPergram
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LeeDambis wrote:

This is nonsense. Ukraine absorbed plenty of former Soviet equipment when the USSR dissolved. The military capabilities of both countries are similar because in many cases they're using the same equipment. It's also not difficult to shoot down a civilian airliner if you have that equipment.




You mean equipment from 1991? Rocketry equipment at that. Is it still in working order after all that time? How old were they in 1991? What kind of corrosive propellant does it use, and wouldn't that degrade over time?
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MWChapel wrote:
LeeDambis wrote:

This is nonsense. Ukraine absorbed plenty of former Soviet equipment when the USSR dissolved. The military capabilities of both countries are similar because in many cases they're using the same equipment. It's also not difficult to shoot down a civilian airliner if you have that equipment.


You mean equipment from 1991? Rocketry equipment at that. Is it still in working order after all that time? How old were they in 1991? What kind of corrosive propellant does it use, and wouldn't that degrade over time?

A lot of expertise from the former Soviet Union remained in Ukraine. They're the eighth largest arms exporter in the world and export all sorts of advanced equipment. A huge amount of that goes to Russia, including most of Russia's nuclear missile arsenal. Ukraine is not a military technological backwater.
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MWChapel wrote:
LeeDambis wrote:

This is nonsense. Ukraine absorbed plenty of former Soviet equipment when the USSR dissolved. The military capabilities of both countries are similar because in many cases they're using the same equipment. It's also not difficult to shoot down a civilian airliner if you have that equipment.




You mean equipment from 1991? Rocketry equipment at that. Is it still in working order after all that time? How old were they in 1991? What kind of corrosive propellant does it use, and wouldn't that degrade over time?


The Ukraine purchased military equipment from Russia until several years ago when relations between the two fell apart. So a lot of military equipment is much younger than 1991. Most of the former Soviet States get their military equipment from Russia. It's a major money maker for Russian military companies.
 
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Quote:
We did warn you — do not fly in our sky


This was posted by Defense Minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic on VK, the Russian facebook, shortly after the plane went down, and was later deleted.

I would be very surprised if this plane wasn't shot down by pro-Russian separatists, who had previously boasted of possessing the SA-7 SAM system but now deny owning such hardware
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