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Subject: I can't stand the Z95... rss

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Chris Brown
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There is no reason to have two A's at the beginning of aardvark. I simply won't do it.
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So I've been trying to force myself to play with ships other than the standard ones I play in "tournament ready" lists. Over the past few days I've played 3 games with the Z95. In each of them, they have performed miserably. Here's a rundown...

Game 1
Lt Blount + ION Pulse Missiles
Wingmen: Han and Wedge each with extras

I was playing against 2 BHs and a shuttle. I ran straight at one BH with everyone because I knew I could get a couple rounds of shot in before the other ships got in range. Blount managed to ION the BH but then died before his second shot. I went on to win the game by some stroke of luck.

Game 2
Same list

Playing against Fettigator with elite TIE wingmen. Again, I got the ION pulse shot on Fett but then he died before his second shot. I narrowly lost that game due to my own mistakes.

Game 3
Rebel Swarm, 2 bandits, 1 rookie+flechette, garvin, blue+fcs+flechette

Playing against 2 TIEs, Bomber, and a Jonus shuttle. This time my opponent did not single out my Z95s like in the other games. Unfortunately, my bandits couldn't hit the broadside of a barn door. They did a little bit of damage to the shuttle. His bomber managed to crush my X-Wings and I was left with the B-Wing and 2 uninjured bandits. His shuttle and TIE each only had 1 hit left on them. I managed to miss his TIE 3 times using 3(range 1) dice and focused vs his 3 dice not focused. Then getting shot back the refused to evade. Finally managed to land the last hit on the shuttle just before the final turn.

Is anyone running these with any success? It's great that they're only 12 points, but compared to a regular TIE they are vastly inferior to me. Maybe I was just having bad rolls. Maybe I should be running them differently. Thoughts?
 
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Jeffrey
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I ran this list last week:
Chewbacca - Predator, C-3PO, Anti-Pursuit Lasers
Red Squadron Pilot
Tala Squadron Pilot
Tala Squadron Pilot

I think it makes target priority hard for the opponent. It makes sense to target fighters before Chewbacca, but I give them 3 fighters to target instead of 2. Headhunters are offensive enough that you can't just ignore them while you eat threw 13 hit points on a YT-1300, but they still take some time to kill.
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Alex Eding
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I tried them for the first time last night. SWARM STYLE!

We tried TIE swarm Vs Z-95 Swarm 8 on 8. My headhunters ended up losing, but I believe they have the advantage in that matchup. Of all the hits landed, I only took 1 critical damage during the whole match. Sheilds are a huge deal in this game.

I will fly more headhunters soon. Still working out my opinion on them, but it was good to get in the cockpit last night.
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Chris Brown
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LocutusZero wrote:
I ran this list last week:
Chewbacca - Predator, C-3PO, Anti-Pursuit Lasers
Red Squadron Pilot
Tala Squadron Pilot
Tala Squadron Pilot

I think it makes target priority hard for the opponent. It makes sense to target fighters before Chewbacca, but I give them 3 fighters to target instead of 2. Headhunters are offensive enough that you can't just ignore them while you eat threw 13 hit points on a YT-1300, but they still take some time to kill.
I might have to give that a try. Any reason why you run a Red Squadron instead of Tarn?
 
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Jeffrey
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Objectively, he would probably be better in that slot. I like having as many ships as possible fly at the same PS to give myself maneuvering options later.
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Sam Cook
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I always want to give as many of them missiles as possible. They can't maneuver worth squat, so you get one good volley in at the start and then they are going to get eaten alive later by more nimble ships.
 
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Zack Stackurski
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I've only flown them once (I've been more focused on learning the Defender well) but I liked Cracken's ability even more than I thought I would. I have flown against 2-4 a few times since they've come out and I have to agree I'm not super impressed with what they bring to the table yet though I have a sneaking suspicion 3 Tala squads for 39 points might be greater than 2 Rookie X's at 42 points. Regardless, they look really cool flying in formation so I'm hoping to learn how to get the most out of them as my next project.
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Ken Williams
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I really enjoy Airen with VI. Team him with Garven, Lando and / or Dutch and there's a lot of sharing going on!

 
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Alan Bull
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You went 2 and 1, were they really that bad. I suspect once people figure out what best to do with them they might earn some respect. The only one I have flown ( a bandit) was destroyed quickly. It did get to launch missiles but missed. It thought I had been clever to include munitions failure, I was quickly disabused of this notion as he was vapourised before shooting again.
 
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tom brown
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I just flew 2 and they did pretty well against tie defenders. They just lack manoeuvrability or maybes that extra green dice.

I forgot I put outmanouver on corran horn so when the phantom didn't cloak and I got 2 range 1 shots with the e wing it didn't kill the phantom, and afterwards when I lost the e wing the z 95s just couldn't catch it.
 
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Chris L
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I only played them twice but I look at Z95s in comparison to xwings. 2 are roughly equivalent to an xwing (pointwise) but with 8 hit points instead of 5.

Now if your opponents go after your Z95s first then think of them as 8+ hit point Biggs. I say + because extra damage over 4 per ship is ignored. Your more valuable ships should be making mincemeat of the enemy while they're focusing on the cannon fodder.

If they ignore your Z95s and go after your higher valued ships, then aim your Z95s into their flanks, get to range 1 and hit them hard (well medium hard anyways). Also, if not killed quickly you can use them to mess up your enemy's formation.

They seem to be fun to play with and I look forward to using them again.

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JD Dibrell
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I personally prefer the A-Wing tbh. A prototype pilot is more survivable than a Z-95 & has a better movement dial. Yes, the PS of 1 is not as good as the PS2 of the bandit squadron & yes there's a 7 point deficit but it's ultimately a better fit for me when it comes to what it can actually do in terms of maneuverability is worth the extra 7 pts. And if I'm not going to take missiles then I'll opt for the chardaan refit instead, reducing that deficit to 5 pts. I've also found that if it's used well, its speed can keep it on the enemies 6 & out of fire arcs so it's still around for that PS1 shot. Admittedly, Cracken is a good buffer, like Garven, Lando, or Kyle so he's not much of a direct comparison to Tycho who is an assault craft pilot plain & simple.

I have a Z-95 that I use as a missile boat (often with Blount & assault missiles if I'm facing a swarm) but after using them in several games (proxies) I just don't find the Zwarm to be fitting my personal play style.
 
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Scott Egan
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Donkler wrote:
I always want to give as many of them missiles as possible. They can't maneuver worth squat, so you get one good volley in at the start and then they are going to get eaten alive later by more nimble ships.


Their dial is the same as an X-wing with a shorter K-turn.
 
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J H
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ScottieATF wrote:
Their dial is the same as an X-wing with a shorter K-turn.

...and debatably better greens.

Not that X-Wings rival most Imperials in the maneuvering department.
 
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Scott Egan
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Vallador wrote:
ScottieATF wrote:
Their dial is the same as an X-wing with a shorter K-turn.

...and debatably better greens.

Not that X-Wings rival most Imperials in the maneuvering department.


Neither of the dials are all that different from an E-wing either.

I'm up in the air as to whether I prefer the shorter or longer green banks. Longer is better to pursue after a flip, but shorter is better if things are tight.
 
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Sam Cook
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The last time I played Z's I was really missing not having a green 1 bank for whatever reason, but yeah you are right that they are basically as maneuverable as an X-Wing.
 
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Chris Brown
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So I tried out this list again.

Rebel Swarm, 2 bandits, 1 rookie+flechette, garvin, blue+fcs+flechette

This time I was against 2 decked out Daggar B-Wings with Etahn.

I put the bandits directly in front of my rookie and blue then had garvin off to the side to flank. I landed range 1 for the initial attack (previous round was milimeters outside of range 3). The initial volley was devestating. I took out one B-Wing, but had to use everyone but Garvin to do it. I then turned into the next B-wing and took him down in 2 rounds. Etahn was hopeless at that point. So, for mirror matches, the rebel swarm is incredibly good. Now if I can figure out how to use them properly against imperials. This has definitely made me feel better about the Z95.

Also, need to make a list for some Cracken shenanigans.
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Jeff Dunford
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Z-95s have been eating up the competitive tournaments around here, so... don't see a problem with them. Just don't put too many upgrades on them. Three Bandits for 36 points is a pretty good deal when filling out a list that includes two small ships or a Falcon. They're far more efficient than A-wings (at least, until Rebel Aces shows up) and it gives your opponent a tough decision between facing your squad's primary threat(s) or the Z-95 "mini-swarm."

As for the named pilots, they have terrific support (Cracken) and niche (Blount) abilities, but they aren't as "swarmy" ... unless going with Cracken + Swarm Tactics, 3x Tala, 3x Bandit (which finished 2nd of 32 at a nearby Regional).
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Dan Dirk
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Don't know why you don't like them, they seemed to do what they are supposed to do. Heck most people would be thrilled that protecting wedge for 2 rounds only cost 20pts and you got 2 ION tokens on a ship... Biggs normally costs 25pts for similar protection.

AND it occurred twice!

Yes the Rebel swarm seems to be slightly weaker then the imperials. Which makes sense imo.

This all goes back to the Core set and balancing... Notice X-wings vs TIE are equal in both attack/def dice against each other? X-wing 3 red vs TIE 3 green and the opposite, Tie 2 red vs X-wing 2 green.

Those ships basically set the standard for each side, a standard that is pretty much still true today. Rebels need more power because they are facing more nimble and fragile ships... Imperials need more ships because they don't have the power or armor.

So a Rebel ship with less then 3 attack dice need something to make up for it (ability, bonus) OR their opponent has to field mostly non-3 def dice ships (which is less common).

Fielding a lot of 2 attack Rebel ships is sort of going against their strengths IMO... especially against Empire where they excel at lots of cheap/weak ships. If that is what you want to do, then play Empire would be my suggestion.

I see the Z as a filler, blocker or ordnance delivery system. Relying on them doesn't seem like the best idea just like you wouldn't field all HWKs.

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