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Unconditional Surrender! World War 2 in Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Diplomacy ends rss

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Ducoulombier Romain
France
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Hi
Diplomacy phase is skipped once Nazi Sov. Pact and Appeasement are not in effect anymore. Say : The Axis DoWs Greece in may'41, conquers it in june'41 and adds a Pro-axis marker in Turkey (common border). Axis DoWs USSR in jun'41 and diplomacy is skipped. Then in jul'41, Axis DoWs and conquers Bulgaria. Can it place a Pro-Axis marker in Turkey and activate it, even so the Diplomacy Phase is skipped ? My answer is yes, but I need a confirmation. This is a tricky move, by the way.
 
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Mark Dey
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No, but it doesn't have to do with Diplomacy being skipped. The political benefit of the Axis conquering a country cannot result in the activation of a Pro-Axis country. You'll still get a benefit, but not that one.
 
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Ducoulombier Romain
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Yes ! Myy mistake ! Thank you
 
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Salvatore Vasta
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mark dey wrote:
No, but it doesn't have to do with Diplomacy being skipped. The political benefit of the Axis conquering a country cannot result in the activation of a Pro-Axis country. You'll still get a benefit, but not that one.


Except for conquering France or collapsing the UK, USA, or USSR. In those situations you get a Political Success, instead of only placing or removing a Pro-Faction marker, which would allow for activating a country as an ally.

To clarify, even though the Diplomacy Phase is skipped when Appeasement and the Pact are not in effect, you still put markers in the Diplomacy Cup when a country is conquered. That is because if the Moscow Treaty goes into effect, the Diplomacy Phase is no longer skipped.

Sal
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Martí Cabré

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So, just to clarify, while the Diplomacy Phase is skipped there is no diplomatic way to bring a neutral country to your faction, right?

For example, once Germany has won France and attacked USSR in 1941, it is no longer possible (until the Moscow Treaty) to bring Spain to the axis faction?

Or is there a way?
 
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Salvatore Vasta
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Correct. There is no diplomatic way.

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Martí Cabré

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svasta wrote:
Correct. There is no diplomatic way.



Thanks Sal.

And, out of curiosity, is this rule a way to simplify things once the war is scalated or is there an historical reason for it?

I mean, would not there be diplomatic efforts from both sides even during the hardest years?

Enjoying the game so far.
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Salvatore Vasta
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marticabre wrote:
svasta wrote:
Correct. There is no diplomatic way.



Thanks Sal.

And, out of curiosity, is this rule a way to simplify things once the war is scalated or is there an historical reason for it?

I mean, would not there be diplomatic efforts from both sides even during the hardest years?

Enjoying the game so far.


It is a combination of both, Martí.

Historically, no significant European country joined either side after Barbarossa. Events like the Iraq coup can be represented in the game with a Declaration of War. Certainly both sides tried very hard to get places like Spain and Turkey to join them, but it didn't happen. This worked out well for the rules and play balance.

From a rules and play balance perspective, once it is a "two-front" war, only the Allies would have the production available to conduct diplomacy. Perhaps not in 1941, but almost definitely starting 42-43. This would then swing the political outcomes too much in the Allies' favor. Or require Germany to spend 5 prod points trying to stop it. That's 5 less prod less for German troops, which then hastens their collapse on the ground. To counter that I would either need to give Germany more production (which would affect other things) or put in rules to limit what the Allies can spend on diplomacy. No diplomacy, therefore, is simpler.

Finally, players have enough mental drain dealing with all those troops, planes, and ships. Not having to worry about diplomacy helps reduce player fatigue in a long game.

Sal
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