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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can you attack other heroes or empty spaces? rss

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Mister Easton
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This came to mind when I was wondering how to make maximum use of an attack with blast, but maybe there are other uses for it, so... The questions I have are:

1. Can you attack empty spaces? If so, I guess no dice have to be tossed for the attack on the empty space itself right?

2. Can you attack other heroes with a hero or other monsters with a monster?
 
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Damien M
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Re: Can you attack other heroes or mepte spaces?
No and no.

From the rulebook:
Page 9 wrote:
When a hero player performs an attack action, he may use one of his equipped weapons to attack a space containing a monster

...

Monster attacks follow the same rules when attacking heroes
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Alexander Steinbach
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Re: Can you attack other heroes or mepte spaces?
Just curious; why would you want to attack your own heroes or monsters..?
 
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Damien M
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Re: Can you attack other heroes or mepte spaces?
Vardaine wrote:
Just curious; why would you want to attack your own heroes or monsters..?


As mentioned in the OP's post: Blast.
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Stephen Williams
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Re: Can you attack other heroes or mepte spaces?
Vardaine wrote:
Just curious; why would you want to attack your own heroes or monsters..?


A tank surrounded by many weak monsters can probably soak a hit from the mage if it means everything around him dies.

On the monster side, sometimes it would be worth sacrificing a nearby minion to trigger a monster's special ability while far away from heroes, or from behind a wall of expendable troops.

These things were certainly valid tactics in D1E, moreso on the OL's side. Attacking empty spaces was also fair game in D1E, which was handy for optimizing the number monsters caught in a blast radius.

Alas, the D2E rules explicitly require you to target an enemy figure.
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Mister Easton
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Re: Can you attack other heroes or mepte spaces?
Thanks guys, much appreciated! So once again it was all in carefull reading of the rulebook once again...

On a side note: I could imagine people houseruling it being possible in some occasions when it would thematically make sense.

In general: would monsters care killing other monsters and would a real hero not be willing to sacrifice himself if it would save others or would take away a big threat?

A bettere example I can think of is using grenade-like objects like the Dwarven Firebomb. Refer to the sceme below. Wouldn't it thematically make sense to throw an explosive (on the empty space) in the middle of the crowd to do maximum damage in stead of just targeting one opponent at the side of the crowd to try and take him out but with a smaller chance of hurting others?

A = attacker
O = opponent
X = empty space

AXXX
XXOX
XOXO
XXOX
 
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Stephen Williams
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mistereaston wrote:

On a side note: I could imagine people houseruling it being possible in some occasions when it would thematically make sense.


It's fine as a house rule if that's the way you want to play. However, if you're going to make this house rule, I would suggest allowing it all the time, not just "on some occasions when it would thematically make sense."

Saying it's only sometimes allowed is just going to generate more debates about which cases are allowed and which aren't. That's the last thing a game like Descent needs.

Making it conditionally dependent on thematic explanations is even worse - you can thematically justify just about anything if you think about it long enough. You'll end up with one side arguing the case is thematically justified with one explanation, and the other side arguing it's not with a different explanation.

Both explanations will be perfectly valid thematic scenarios, the only differentiating factor will be which one each player wants to be true.
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Mister Easton
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Stewi wrote:
mistereaston wrote:

On a side note: I could imagine people houseruling it being possible in some occasions when it would thematically make sense.


It's fine as a house rule if that's the way you want to play. However, if you're going to make this house rule, I would suggest allowing it all the time, not just "on some occasions when it would thematically make sense."

Saying it's only sometimes allowed is just going to generate more debates about which cases are allowed and which aren't. That's the last thing a game like Descent needs.

Making it conditionally dependent on thematic explanations is even worse - you can thematically justify just about anything if you think about it long enough. You'll end up with one side arguing the case is thematically justified with one explanation, and the other side arguing it's not with a different explanation.

Both explanations will be perfectly valid thematic scenarios, the only differentiating factor will be which one each player wants to be true.


Thanks for the advice! But don't worry I totally agree and it was just a case of bad wording. If it comes up I think we will just play it by the rules unless the other players make a big deal out of it (which I doubt). Just wanted to put the option out there and see what people think of it.
 
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Donny Behne
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mistereaston wrote:

In general: would monsters care killing other monsters and would a real hero not be willing to sacrifice himself if it would save others or would take away a big threat?

Wouldn't it thematically make sense to throw an explosive (on the empty space) in the middle of the crowd to do maximum damage in stead of just targeting one opponent at the side of the crowd to try and take him out but with a smaller chance of hurting others?


The thing to remember here is that this isn't an RPG - it's a tactical dungeon crawl. What makes thematic sense rarely (if ever) applies. There are some serious line of sight flaws that make no sense thematically. But they are balanced and used because it facilitates the tactical nature of the game. Trying to apply thematic sense opens you up to a world of subjectivity in a game where both sides are squeezing out every last inch of value from their actions. Stick to the rules as written, for both sides, and it will run more smoothly.
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Mister Easton
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kelann08 wrote:

The thing to remember here is that this isn't an RPG - it's a tactical dungeon crawl. What makes thematic sense rarely (if ever) applies. There are some serious line of sight flaws that make no sense thematically. But they are balanced and used because it facilitates the tactical nature of the game. Trying to apply thematic sense opens you up to a world of subjectivity in a game where both sides are squeezing out every last inch of value from their actions. Stick to the rules as written, for both sides, and it will run more smoothly.


Haha, very good point! With some effort I could conjure some thematical sense for the Line of Sight rules that do seem quite absurd at times (for example you could imagine characters leaning around corners to shoot while still standing in the same space), but besides from it being far stretched, we indeed play by these rules as by all written rules. I guess that is indeed because this is not an RPG but a different kind of game, though I never consiously thought of that being te reason! So this is just one more argument to apply the now confirmed 'written rule' that you can only attack enemy figures if any debate ever came up.

On a side note: for me it's even better because even though I do like RPG's, I maybe like tactical games (in which I must figure out how to exploit the rules someone else hase made to get an advantage and win) a little more.

So thank you for a very good and valid argument!
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