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Dominion: Prince Promo Card» Forums » Rules

Subject: Prince and Possession rss

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Greg Pratt
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So... how does Prince work if I play Possession and during the Possession turn I play a Prince? Is the set aside card going to activate on every one of my turns or every one of the possessee's turns?

I'm currently assuming that it would be the possessee's turn. I'm asking, as I can see some very nasty scenarios where it might be possible to eliminate a player's deck entirely and keep them in that state with the right mix of cards.

Am I correct also in assuming that a previously played Prince will also activate when I Possess the player that played it?
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Simon Jester
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Quote:
Possession Action $6P
The player to your left takes an extra turn after this one, in which you can see all cards he can and make all decisions for him.
Any cards he would gain on that turn, you gain instead; any cards of his that are trashed are set aside and returned to his discard pile at end of turn
.

Quote:
Prince Action $8
You may set this aside. If you do, set aside an Action card from your hand costing up to 4. At the start of each of your turns, play that Action, setting it aside again when you discard it from play. (Stop playing it if you fail to set it aside on a turn you play it).


I believe you are right on both counts: the possessed player will Prince the chosen action for the rest of the game on his/her turn, including when that player takes an extra turn due to being possessed.
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Chris Schumann
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According to the Possession card, the Possessee is taking the turn, so the Prince and the set-aside Action would have to be played from that hand, and would activate each turn of that player after that.

And since that player takes the extra turn, when you Possess him again, the set-aside card would indeed be played during those turns as well.

Sounds awesome until you remember that you can't trash his cards or pollute his deck during that turn (which is why it is NOT an Attack card), but you can get benefits for trying.

What would be some good options that would be better for a Possessor than a Possessee? Remodel? Rats?
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Buz
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The dirtiest possession trick is to ambassador away their provinces.
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George I.
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Magesmiley wrote:
So... how does Prince work if I play Possession and during the Possession turn I play a Prince? Is the set aside card going to activate on every one of my turns or every one of the possessee's turns?


It's going to be activated on the turns of the possessed player, who originally had bought the Prince. Setting a card aside is NOT gaining, so the ownership remains to the other player. Remember, with Possession the other player is taking a turn; you just tell her what to do.

Player A: Plays Possession
Player B: [Possessed by Player A] Plays Prince; sets aside Rats.
Player B: [Normal turn] Plays Rats at start of round.

Etc

Beggar would be a cool card to set away with Prince on a possessed turn. Sure, you give him +$3 every turn, but he'll be flooded with copper eventually... Trade route would also be very bad, as your opponent would have to trash a card every turn and begin with a 4-card hand. Sure, it's good in early game, but not later. Bishop, for the same reason; it would help you out as well.

buzhannon wrote:
The dirtiest possession trick is to ambassador away their provinces.


That's why you don't buy Ambassador if Possession is available. If you do, check that you can Remodel/Salvage/whatever him.
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Zach Leonard
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The card is a bit poorly worded, but it does give them an "out." All they have to do us "forget" to set it aside on one turn.
 
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James Newton
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TheZMage wrote:
The card is a bit poorly worded, but it does give them an "out." All they have to do us "forget" to set it aside on one turn.

Actually that is incorrect - Prince only stops playing the card every turn if you fail to set it aside on a turn it is played. You can only fail to do something if you try to do it, forgetting is not failing; and in any case I'm sure you're opponents will help you to remember.

In other words, "do, or do not, there is no not trying".
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Doug Linger
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churchmouse wrote:
TheZMage wrote:
The card is a bit poorly worded, but it does give them an "out." All they have to do us "forget" to set it aside on one turn.

Actually that is incorrect - Prince only stops playing the card every turn if you fail to set it aside on a turn it is played. You can only fail to do something if you try to do it, forgetting is not failing; and in any case I'm sure you're opponents will help you to remember.

In other words, "do, or do not, there is no not trying".


If my wife tells me to pick up my kid after soccer practice and I forget, one way of saying so is that "I failed to pick him up." That doesn't mean I got in the car and got lost, or the car broke down. It means I didn't do it, for whatever reason. Clearly this is the way the card is meant to be read.

If someone tried that argument in one of my games I'd roll my eyes and say, "No. Now stop trying to change the card's meaning or go away."
 
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Chris Schumann
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Xodiac wrote:
If my wife tells me to pick up my kid after soccer practice and I forget, one way of saying so is that "I failed to pick him up." That doesn't mean I got in the car and got lost, or the car broke down. It means I didn't do it, for whatever reason. Clearly this is the way the card is meant to be read.

If someone tried that argument in one of my games I'd roll my eyes and say, "No. Now stop trying to change the card's meaning or go away."

I very much disagree. If someone at my table forgot to set aside the Action, I would remind them it's not optional and must be set aside. I want to win, but not because someone made a mistake.

I'd also like to ensure someone could not cheat because they actually wanted to discard the set-aside Action.
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Zach Leonard
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churchmouse wrote:
TheZMage wrote:
The card is a bit poorly worded, but it does give them an "out." All they have to do us "forget" to set it aside on one turn.

Actually that is incorrect - Prince only stops playing the card every turn if you fail to set it aside on a turn it is played. You can only fail to do something if you try to do it, forgetting is not failing; and in any case I'm sure you're opponents will help you to remember.

In other words, "do, or do not, there is no not trying".


So you're saying that the guy who forgets to set aside their duration cards (there's always one) hasn't failed to do so?

Forgetting is totally failing. This card was clearly designed to be used positively, which is why the language describes not putting the card aside as failure. There isn't an option for choosing not to put it aside, but frankly it sounds like this road leads to games essentially changing from Dominion into a round of eagle-eyed policing of one person's activities to ensure that he or she never forgets to set the card aside, and whether or not it was done intentionally. Far better to leave that text off the card and have it in the errata.
 
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Ryan James
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From Donald X.'s response here, where several examples of failing to set aside cards are enumerated, not one is because the player forgot or chose not to. They are all examples of how cards can move out of "from play" via mechanisms of the game. I imagine that if forgetting to put it aside again were a valid method, he would have said so.
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Bryan Doughty
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Most games are played by folks voluntarily. So the people playing can be expected to follow the rules to the best of their abilities. There is no need in a typical game to include rules about what to do when someone fails to follow the rules. After all, how can anyone expect someone who chooses to not follow the rules of a game to follow the rules about not following the rules?

Of course from time to time players will err. For tournament play the issue has to be addressed to discourage cheating, and to keep things as fair as possible for all participants, but in casual play we are left to our own devices to address the issues that arise from rule infractions.

Dominion hasn't before had a rule about not following the rules. Prince is not an exception. The text on the card is purely intended to address situations that can arise in normal, correct play.

If someone forgets to play correctly, help that player to remember, and figure out the best way for your group to balance out the irregularity that may arise. If someone "forgets" to play correctly, maybe find someone else to play with, or accept that now you are playing a "variant".
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Doug Linger
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Whizkid wrote:
I very much disagree. If someone at my table forgot to set aside the Action, I would remind them it's not optional and must be set aside. I want to win, but not because someone made a mistake.

I'd also like to ensure someone could not cheat because they actually wanted to discard the set-aside Action.


The Prince card states what to do if someone fails to set the played Action card aside.

As you pointed out, there is never anything preventing you from setting a card aside. If you try to put the Action card next to the Prince card, you can do so. Nothing will physically prevent you.

Therefore, either:

the card writer told players what to do in a situation that cannot possibly arise,

OR

the card writer is saying that forgetting to set your Action card aside is possible and shouldn't be retconned.

The fact that the card tells you what to do with the Prince if you don't set aside the Action card you played with it effectively makes setting the card aside after the turn optional. It just means you wasted $8 on a now-useless Prince that could have been spent on a Province, or elsewhere.
 
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Chris Schumann
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Xodiac wrote:

Therefore, either:

the card writer told players what to do in a situation that cannot possibly arise,

OR

the card writer is saying that forgetting to set your Action card aside is possible and shouldn't be retconned.

OR

you are being deliberately obtuse.

OR

you have not read the designer's FAQ for this card that outlines many of the ways you could actually fail to set aside a card by following the rules.
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George I.
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This wording actually is GOOD, because it covers special cases with Duration cards (say, Haven) and one-shots (say, Feast or Pillage or even Madman). So these situations are possible.
 
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Donald X.
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Xodiac wrote:
As you pointed out, there is never anything preventing you from setting a card aside. If you try to put the Action card next to the Prince card, you can do so. Nothing will physically prevent you.

This is false. In Dominion there is a rule, that cards can only move other cards if nothing else has moved them in-between. A card "loses track" of a card if something else moves it. This rule, not published until the Dark Ages rulebook, exists because you could really lose track.

Xodiac wrote:
the card writer told players what to do in a situation that cannot possibly arise,

The card writer told the players what to do in situations where the card is no longer in play at that point at which Prince would set it aside again - for example, it's a Feast and so was trashed and so is now in the trash (or perhaps was then removed from the trash with Rogue and then shuffled into a deck with Inn).

Xodiac wrote:
The fact that the card tells you what to do with the Prince if you don't set aside the Action card you played with it effectively makes setting the card aside after the turn optional.

This is never true in Dominion. Optional things say "you may." Do as much as you can whenever instructed to do something.
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Roger Horner
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donaldx wrote:
Xodiac wrote:
The fact that the card tells you what to do with the Prince if you don't set aside the Action card you played with it effectively makes setting the card aside after the turn optional.

This is never true in Dominion. Optional things say "you may." Do as much as you can whenever instructed to do something.


So to bring things full circle, the card says "setting it aside again when discarding from play." Since it doesn't say "you may set it aside," this is something you must do if you can.

Now there was another thread talking about what to do if you forget to do something in Dominion and the result was there are no rules for that so it is up to the players to collectively decide what to do on a case by case basis. If a player intentionally forgot to set aside the card, I would suggest choosing someone to dig thought his discard pile to find the card and then set it aside.

To help you not forget, I seem to remember Donald suggesting that you not move the cards into your play area, but keep them with their Prince. If you need to keep track of which cards you played (because of multiple Princes), just turn the cards 90 degrees when you play them and reset them in your clean-up phase.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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roger1818 wrote:
If a player intentionally forgot to set aside the card, I would suggest choosing someone to dig thought his discard pile to find the card and then set it aside.


I'd suggest to never play with that player again or wait until s/he grows up.
 
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Jeff Wolfe
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roger1818 wrote:
To help you not forget, I seem to remember Donald suggesting that you not move the cards into your play area, but keep them with their Prince.


It's in the FAQ.

Prince FAQ wrote:
The set aside Action technically goes back and forth from being in play to being set aside each turn, but in practice it's easier to leave it sitting on the Prince and just announce resolving it each turn.

 
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