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Subject: [DECK] weyland swarm rss

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Daine .

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First the caveats:

I've only played this deck 20 times, all face to face. So far it's 17-3, with just over half the victories coming from scorched earth.

I'm not particularly fluent with Weyland. In some ways, the deck design reflects my unfamiliarity with Weyland orthodoxy. This may also mean, however, that my playstyle is also very different from a standard Weyland player, meaning individual results may vary.

So here's the deck:

Weyland swarm

Weyland Consortium: Building a Better World (Core Set)

Agenda (13)
1x Geothermal Fracking (Opening Moves)
3x Government Contracts (A Study in Static)
3x Hostile Takeover (Core Set)
3x Posted Bounty (Core Set)
3x Veterans Program (True Colors)

Asset (3)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••

Operation (15)
3x Beanstalk Royalties (Core Set)
3x Commercialization (Cyber Exodus)
2x Reclamation Order (Double Time) ••••
3x Restructure (Second Thoughts)
3x Scorched Earth (Core Set)
1x SEA Source (Core Set) ••

Barrier (5)
2x Hive (Double Time)
3x Ice Wall (Core Set)

Code Gate (3)
3x Enigma (Core Set)

Sentry (10)
3x Archer (Core Set)
3x Matrix Analyzer (Core Set) ••••• •
1x Shadow (Core Set)
3x Swarm (Opening Moves)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Double Time

Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.


Discussion:

I built this deck to screw over atman and parasite decks, as well as fixed-breaker criminals. Your first priority is to set up ice over HQ and R&D, whether you plan on rezzing it or not. Don't fuss too much over ice positioning, honestly. Score hostile takeovers as soon as you have them, even on turn one. The threat of archers is more important even than preventing siphons.

Don't rush! This deck is absurdly strong in late game, so play what comes to you as you get it. Jacksons can clear your hand of agendas if you get flooded and can't protect HQ. The beauty of this deck is that you can make servers absurdly expensive to get into. I frequently end the game with an ice wall over one server and a swarm over another with 5-10 advancements each. Commercialization is an absolute beast. The first one I score is usually for only 5 or 6, but I've gotten 15 for them in games where agendas clumped at the bottom.

The only real risk is runners who refuse to run at all. I think I'll find room for a troubleshooter or an Ash to punish careful shapers, but it hasn't happened yet where I've been overwhelmed.

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts, especially since I'm an RP player and haven't played against much Weyland.
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Ken Dilloo
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A few thoughts:
You have a bunch of economy cards, but really cheap ice. Could some of those slots be used more efficiently?

Apart from Shadow, you have one way to tag (SeaSource), so a single decoy could completely ruin that whole path.

Quick to set up runners, that are very aggressive will be all sorts of problems for these slow build up Weyland decks.

Your agenda mix could use some work. Why Vets? You literally have nothing that gives bad pub, as far as I can see (apart from Geothermal). Gov Contracts and Geothermal may be put to better use with other agendas, since you already have so much econ. Or, cut some econ, if you find you can score these.

my two cents.
 
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Benny And The
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I like the overall look of it. Do you get lots of value out of the matrix analyzers? What if you replaced them with data ravens or possibly ash?

Edit: Disregard this comment. I totally thought this was a BWBI deck lol
 
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Matthew Sigal
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bigloo33 wrote:
Why Vets? You literally have nothing that gives bad pub, as far as I can see (apart from Geothermal).


Swarm also gives BP.
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Zeb
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bigloo33 wrote:

Apart from Shadow, you have one way to tag (SeaSource), so a single decoy could completely ruin that whole path.


He also has Posted Bounty (also can give BP but usually irrelevant).

To OP: I would suggest switching x1 Swarm for x1 Hadrian's Wall. Also taking out the Reclamation orders and adding in x1-x2 Tollbooth.
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Ken Dilloo
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Twitch_City wrote:
bigloo33 wrote:
Why Vets? You literally have nothing that gives bad pub, as far as I can see (apart from Geothermal).


Swarm also gives BP.


Ah, true. Missed that, and he has 3x. OP, do you find you hit with swarm enough? I tried it, and it really didn't seem worthwhile. What has your experience been?
 
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Benny And The
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Twitch_City wrote:
bigloo33 wrote:
Why Vets? You literally have nothing that gives bad pub, as far as I can see (apart from Geothermal).


Swarm also gives BP.


And hostile takeover
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Ken Dilloo
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OK, so disregard most of what I wrote. modest Reading is fundamental!
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Chris Woo
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How often do you Advance ICE? I see 9 Transaction Operations, for a total of 9 credits from your ID. If you're consistently advancing ICE 9 or more times, you might get better value out of Because We Built It.
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Ken Dilloo
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bind587 wrote:
How often do you Advance ICE? I see 9 Transaction Operations, for a total of 9 credits from your ID. If you're consistently advancing ICE 9 or more times, you might get better value out of Because We Built It.


....then Commercialization.
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Neil G
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bind587 wrote:
How often do you Advance ICE? I see 9 Transaction Operations, for a total of 9 credits from your ID. If you're consistently advancing ICE 9 or more times, you might get better value out of Because We Built It.


I can understand you thinking that, but sadly you'd be wrong. BWBI is just a fundamentally shoddy ID. I wish it wasn't, I loved it and I played it for a long time, but even when your gameplan revolves around advancing ice you will inevitably find you want to do it two or three times some turns and not at all for several other turns. Getting the extra credit from every transaction no matter when you play them is far more versatile, and early game credits are much more vital. Netrunner games just don't go long enough for BWBI to catch up in value with BABW on that score.

To the OP - You say this deck has a very strong late game but I really can't see how. You have nothing in the deck to capitalise on the extreme amounts of money commercialisation can net you other than 1 SEA, and only having one of those means you can't even use the reclamation orders to double/triple scorch multiple times. What is your magic late game plan to stop a runner sitting back, opusing or building up cash on Kati every turn and waiting for you to install agendas? It's the route 1 way to beat Weyland and every good player knows it. You don't even have anything other than Jackson to bluff with. A couple of corporate troubleshooters would be huge, I've not built a Weyland deck without them for a long time. Also, Weyland with no Atlases is plain nuts. It's probably the best card in the faction. Try it. Love it. Realise that if Astroscript wasn't a thing everyone would be complaining about how much better it was than any other agenda. It blows people up. It finds the winning hostile takeover. It recovers from credit denial or ice destruction. It stops indexing cold. It's just plain great. ALWAYS score it with counters unless HQ is under extreme pressure and you need to sneak it out.
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Daine .

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In no particular order,

I'll replace the geothermal with an atlas.

Veteran's programs are either early archer fodder or to handle the significant amounts of BP I accumulate. I have scored at least 2 takeovers every game I've played so far. I also rez a swarm every single game.

I want three swarms so that I see at least one. It's the most taxing ice in the game and I'm never sorry to see it in my hand. For purposes of BP management, I sometimes rez it before there are programs to even trash.

My main tagging mechanism is posted bounty. Decoy isn't really a problem unless they have two. With plascretes and decoys, I make the runner use them and then either replace them or risk death again. Multiple countermeasures absolutely push me off the scorched route.

End game strength comes from a multiply-stacked remote consisting of swarms, archers, and ice walls. Troubleshooter usually makes it impenetrable. That said, I agree that I need at least one trap. I'll trade a transaction for a GRNDL refinery and see how that works.

Reclamation orders are for commercializations or restructures, depending on what comes up. I have loved them this far and am loth to replace them.

This has all been really helpful. Thanks, everybody.

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Palpster
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You only have Restructure as a transaction operation? Because We Built It would be much better in doing what you are describing.

One thing though...before you ever take this to a tournament, try timing your games and see how long they take. I can imagine you'll have it happen more than once that you'd run out of time in a full 65 min match playing both sides. It's the main reason I don't take my Weyland deck to tournaments anymore, it was very strong, but too slow.
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Daine .

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Beanstalk and commercialization are also transactions. I still prefer this identity for the reasons listed above. I often have turns where I advance three times (or twice and play a commercialization). With reclamation order I frequently play six or more commercializations in a game.

This deck sometimes goes long, but it's way way faster than the RP deck I usually play. In any case, I don't think I've gone to time in a tournament ever. I play Gabe if I'm worried about it or I'm aware enough that I can pressure my opponent to speed up if I know we will run out.
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Chris Woo
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Vapo wrote:
bind587 wrote:
How often do you Advance ICE? I see 9 Transaction Operations, for a total of 9 credits from your ID. If you're consistently advancing ICE 9 or more times, you might get better value out of Because We Built It.


I can understand you thinking that, but sadly you'd be wrong. BWBI is just a fundamentally shoddy ID. I wish it wasn't, I loved it and I played it for a long time, but even when your gameplan revolves around advancing ice you will inevitably find you want to do it two or three times some turns and not at all for several other turns. Getting the extra credit from every transaction no matter when you play them is far more versatile, and early game credits are much more vital. Netrunner games just don't go long enough for BWBI to catch up in value with BABW on that score.


I can understand you thinking that is the case for every game, but sadly you'd be wrong. A friend of mine has made and tested a BWBI deck that at one point went undefeated at a Plugged In Tour event. The ID can work and it is short-sighted of you to simply dismiss it.

Take a look at it in this article, look for the Great Wall of Weyland:

http://thesatelliteuplink.blogspot.com/2013/10/decklists-not...

Transaction economy is amazing for any kill deck, when as you say the early credits matter the most. However, it isn't the only way a deck can be built, and if the goal of your Weyland deck is to score agendas (which the deck I'm referencing was), then BWBI shows it's value as it funds the mid and late game better that BABW.
 
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Daine .

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I think that versatility is the strongest reason to use original flavor weyland over the ID which advances ice. I have won games without advancing ice, but I've never played a game without using a transaction. although most games the difference for me between BABW and BWBI is relatively small, there are some games where I'd gain little to nothing from the recurring credit.
 
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Yi Sheng Siow
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bind587 wrote:
Vapo wrote:
bind587 wrote:
How often do you Advance ICE? I see 9 Transaction Operations, for a total of 9 credits from your ID. If you're consistently advancing ICE 9 or more times, you might get better value out of Because We Built It.


I can understand you thinking that, but sadly you'd be wrong. BWBI is just a fundamentally shoddy ID. I wish it wasn't, I loved it and I played it for a long time, but even when your gameplan revolves around advancing ice you will inevitably find you want to do it two or three times some turns and not at all for several other turns. Getting the extra credit from every transaction no matter when you play them is far more versatile, and early game credits are much more vital. Netrunner games just don't go long enough for BWBI to catch up in value with BABW on that score.


I can understand you thinking that is the case for every game, but sadly you'd be wrong. A friend of mine has made and tested a BWBI deck that at one point went undefeated at a Plugged In Tour event. The ID can work and it is short-sighted of you to simply dismiss it.

Take a look at it in this article, look for the Great Wall of Weyland:

http://thesatelliteuplink.blogspot.com/2013/10/decklists-not...

Transaction economy is amazing for any kill deck, when as you say the early credits matter the most. However, it isn't the only way a deck can be built, and if the goal of your Weyland deck is to score agendas (which the deck I'm referencing was), then BWBI shows it's value as it funds the mid and late game better that BABW.


I, too, have experimented extensively with BWBI, and my thoughts are more in line with Daine and Vapo. Even in my ice advancement decks, BABW is far superior, every time. Even in the ones where I plan to advance one ice 14 times at least.
 
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Vincent Perry
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Even now with Reclamation order (which you can use to get back your ToL's OR your Commercializations? +1 credit to transactions is more flexible, true, but that doesn't mean that there aren't strong BWBI archetypes out there. If you can make it to the late came, repeatedly getting 14 credits whenever you need money for the rest of the game is strong no mater how you slice it.
 
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Brendan Cavalier
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I'm modding this and playing it in BWBI ... gotta try something new till I fall back in love with RP.
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Grish Noren
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I gotta say, I mulled into the worst hand ever. 4 agendas & an ice wall, but I pulled out victory anyways in my first test. Its probably just that the OCTGN shuffler hates me, but the first 10 turns seem the roughest. That said, if you get to the end game with this deck, you will likely win. The pressure of breaking swarm and surviving scorch seems to be too much for a lot of people.

I'm a fan of the deck. I used to import swarm into NBN for similar shenanigans, but having the scorch as back up is far better than going for the astro train.

Fun deck. Am fan.

(It may feel like way too many agendas, but bleeding a few 1 pointers is ok, so long as you get one of them to turn on archer)

Atlas -> SEA Source is a great back up, but I found myself winning with the bounty.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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siowy wrote:
I, too, have experimented extensively with BWBI, and my thoughts are more in line with Daine and Vapo. Even in my ice advancement decks, BABW is far superior, every time. Even in the ones where I plan to advance one ice 14 times at least.


I disbelieve. 14 Advancements is 14 free Credits. Do you seriously play 14 Transactions? To say nothing of the cost to the Runner or gains via Commercialization...
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Daine .

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Grish,

I'm glad it worked for you! The more I play it, the more I'm having fun with it. Maybe I'm just a hipster, drawn to whatever is weakest at the moment, but I'm having a lot of fun moving counter to the meta.

All others,

Can we just agree that BWBI and BABW are both similarly useful? While I am firmly in the camp of original weyland, I won't crap on the new one or those who want to play it. There are certainly decks where one or the other would be a better choice. For the deck I'm playing, original flavor works best (despite my advancable ice). If you've built a different deck or have success with a similar deck using a different ID, that's awesome.
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Captain Frisk
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etherial wrote:
siowy wrote:
I, too, have experimented extensively with BWBI, and my thoughts are more in line with Daine and Vapo. Even in my ice advancement decks, BABW is far superior, every time. Even in the ones where I plan to advance one ice 14 times at least.


I disbelieve. 14 Advancements is 14 free Credits. Do you seriously play 14 Transactions? To say nothing of the cost to the Runner or gains via Commercialization...


Those 14 advancements needs to be on 14 separate turns. Assuming that you need to use a full turn advancing at least 3 times - in an average 15 turn game, you'll be giving up your ability at least 3 times.

It still may work out being ahead total credit wise, but an extra free credit to put a counter on swarm isn't worth not being able to get enough credits to rez it.
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Grish Noren
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Daine wrote:
Grish,

I'm glad it worked for you! The more I play it, the more I'm having fun with it. Maybe I'm just a hipster, drawn to whatever is weakest at the moment, but I'm having a lot of fun moving counter to the meta.


It is a really fun strategy that leads to interesting match ups and I think a lot of that is that the math can change so often that you don't feel like you're stuck without options very often. It also puts pressure on some of the strongest strategies which tend to ignore quantity of subroutines that need to be broken and focus purely on strength.

Also the ability that this deck has to offset BP gain means that Weyland can stay the in the game longer than it could have. I initially shrugged veterans program, but I think it's exactly what Weyland needed.

Thanks again for sharing.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
etherial wrote:
siowy wrote:
I, too, have experimented extensively with BWBI, and my thoughts are more in line with Daine and Vapo. Even in my ice advancement decks, BABW is far superior, every time. Even in the ones where I plan to advance one ice 14 times at least.


I disbelieve. 14 Advancements is 14 free Credits. Do you seriously play 14 Transactions? To say nothing of the cost to the Runner or gains via Commercialization...


Those 14 advancements needs to be on 14 separate turns. Assuming that you need to use a full turn advancing at least 3 times - in an average 15 turn game, you'll be giving up your ability at least 3 times.

It still may work out being ahead total credit wise, but an extra free credit to put a counter on swarm isn't worth not being able to get enough credits to rez it.


Yes and No. I'll Advance-Advance-Commercialize and then it's still free. The day BWBI came out, I tested it and I was getting twice as many free Credits off of it as I had been with BABW. I switched to BWBI and I've never looked back. I was very sad to be getting over a cold during the Pandemonium Regional. I hate to blame my poor standings on the cold, but I went 7-1 with BWBI over two Plugged-In Tour events back when the Runner was still the clear favorite, so I'm pretty confident I do know what I'm talking about.
 
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