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Subject: And the vote goes to.... rss

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Steve Wraxall
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OK, so Id been mulling over getting a Civ game of some sorts, as I loved the old PC and Xbox 360 versions and wanted to build an empire.

The list was narrowed down to: -

Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
Clash of Cultures
Nations

Sorry to say but Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game was excluded due to game length and fiddliness from my limited understanding. A caveat to that is that yes I still included TtA and the same things are said of that as a game, but something about it just allures me....

I won't lie, if TtA was in print and available anywhere, I may have just gone for that. Nations I'm led to believe is a more Euro affair feel to it.
So the winner is and has just been ordered, CoC, have I done the right thing and should I be excited?
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Moe45673
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CoC is one of the best games I've ever played and is phenomenal. I cannot wait to play it again. I've played Through the Ages and Nations as well. TtA is also an amazing game but is more a tableau building euro (that's brilliantly designed). Nations is TtA stripped way down.

Hope that helps.
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Matthew Vanek
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I haven't played nations, but you really can't go wrong with either tta or coc. CoC, in my opinion, is better with four. Tta is great with two or three, but gets lengthy. CoC is a great, faster civ game. And the tech tree is pretty brilliant.

I think you will be really happy with your purchase!
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Steve Wraxall
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Thanks Moe.

You've worried me there Matthew, as most of my plays are going to be with two people...cry
Why four and not two or three?
 
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You're posting in the CoC forums, so you'll probably see a CoC bias.

With that said:

I've been doing a LOT of mulling over Civ games lately. My solution is Clash of Cultures for the 4x Civ game and Nations for the card Civ game.

CoC really is amazing. TtA is equally amazing, but it is long. So long that I don't think I'd play it. So Nations was the solution to the TtA problem.

Historia is also interesting. Its Kickstarter just concluded. It's sort of a Euro Civ game as opposed to CoC being a "traditional" Civ game and TtA and Nations being card play Civ games.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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I own and love all three.

Clash is amazing, and captures much more of the computer game civ feel. If I had to pick one, it would be my choice.

TTA is a little more abstract but there is so much beauty in it's elegant mechanisms and balances. I've played over a thousand games now I think, and am not remotely tired of it.

Nations is the weakest of the 3, and much more euroey. It's a good game by most yardsticks, but not in the same league as the other two (which are both in my top 5 of hundreds of games).
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Grant Holzhauer
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I had Civ, but never played it for the same reasons as the OP. I've played TtA, but don't love it. I've gone with CoC now (playing first game tomorrow) and Historia (just finished on KS) for a Civ of a different style.
 
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Steve Wraxall
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I don't mind a bit of bias, if the person quantifies it and adds a bit of substance to their reasoning. I think I still want to get TtA when it gets a reprint, but glad that you say CoC captures the Civ style of the PC game of days gone by, as that is what I'm looking for I think.

Grant, be interested to hear your thoughts following your first play, if you'd be kind enough to share.

I also know there's several reviews out there, but not everyone wants to put 1,000+ words down to define a game. So if anyone wants to share their experiences with CoC and what they like/dislike, I'd be very obliged.
 
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Matthew Vanek
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CoC isn't bad with 2, but if you rush military, it can be one sided. If one player gets a first strike off, it is awfully hard to come back from it. Even late game, military can overpower the focus of the game. In a 3-4 player game, you have the fact that if you attack, you have the other players standing by ready to pound your face to keep you in check. With a 2 player first strike, you don't have to defend your cities, just wipe the opponent cities. For me, TTA is much better for two for this reason.
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heavyriffs wrote:
I don't mind a bit of bias, if the person quantifies it and adds a bit of substance to their reasoning. I think I still want to get TtA when it gets a reprint, but glad that you say CoC captures the Civ style of the PC game of days gone by, as that is what I'm looking for I think.

Grant, be interested to hear your thoughts following your first play, if you'd be kind enough to share.

I also know there's several reviews out there, but not everyone wants to put 1,000+ words down to define a game. So if anyone wants to share their experiences with CoC and what they like/dislike, I'd be very obliged.


If you plan to get TtA, you should probably go here within the next 3 days:

Through the Ages Kickstarter
 
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Grant Holzhauer
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I'll let you know!
 
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Steve Wraxall
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Misterboy wrote:

If you plan to get TtA, you should probably go here within the next 3 days:

Through the Ages Kickstarter


I had seen that, but the inability to pay via Paypal kills it for me, not everyone likes putting purchases on cards.
Plus we get nailed by customs charges, if it ships from the USA.
So I'll pick it up at retail, as and when...
 
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heavyriffs wrote:
Misterboy wrote:

If you plan to get TtA, you should probably go here within the next 3 days:

Through the Ages Kickstarter


I had seen that, but the inability to pay via Paypal kills it for me, not everyone likes putting purchases on cards.
Plus we get nailed by customs charges, if it ships from the USA.
So I'll pick it up at retail, as and when...


But if you order now, you'll get a bunch of crappy games for free!! arrrh
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Rafael Ramus
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heavyriffs wrote:
Thanks Moe.

You've worried me there Matthew, as most of my plays are going to be with two people...cry
Why four and not two or three?


First, let me tell you I think you absolutelly did the best choice picking CoC. It is way better than TtA, Nations and SMCiv imho.

About your question, 3 players I think is almost just as great as with 4 players, so don't worry about it. The configuration of the board for 4 players is perhaps more entertaining, since usually there is always at least one player you can't reach military up to mid game.

Now, 2 players. I play a lot with 2, and the problem really is the military rush. There are games that you can and will win military if your opponent doesn't keep the military pace. There are games that may feel like a wargame of sorts. Sure, it really is up to the players (some people play agressively, some people do not. If you don't, you won't have much problems). You should not worry much about it, since it is a minor thing in a wonderful game.

One other thing is that you lose some of the trading and agreements that are bound to happen with 3 or 4 players, but we found out that is not really a problem.

One not so unorthodox solution we came up with (me and my girl) was to simply play with a larger board configuration. It really did help and we just play it like that since then. One other thing: it is easy to conduct dummy cities in this game (the game already comes with the Barbarians AI, which is just great!). Absolutelly amazing for a 2 players game (you still won't get the trading aspect going on much though).

I never bothered to suggest it as a variant here in the forum, but if after your first games you find that something is lacking in your experience with this game (most people don't!), I would be happy to share more of it.
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Rafael Ramus wrote:

I never bothered to suggest it as a variant here in the forum, but if after your first games you find that something is lacking in your experience with this game (most people don't!), I would be happy to share more of it.


I think you should share your variant. I, for one, would like to consider it!
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MC Crispy
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heavyriffs wrote:
Misterboy wrote:

If you plan to get TtA, you should probably go here within the next 3 days:

Through the Ages Kickstarter


I had seen that, but the inability to pay via Paypal kills it for me, not everyone likes putting purchases on cards.
Plus we get nailed by customs charges, if it ships from the USA.
So I'll pick it up at retail, as and when...
Or check out the next UK Maths trade, I'll probably be putting my copy in.
 
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Steve Wraxall
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Rafael Ramus wrote:

Now, 2 players. I play a lot with 2, and the problem really is the military rush. There are games that you can and will win military if your opponent doesn't keep the military pace. There are games that may feel like a wargame of sorts. Sure, it really is up to the players (some people play agressively, some people do not. If you don't, you won't have much problems). You should not worry much about it, since it is a minor thing in a wonderful game.

One other thing is that you lose some of the trading and agreements that are bound to happen with 3 or 4 players, but we found out that is not really a problem.


I'll be playing it with sometimes aggressive players and sometimes passive, that shy away from conflict. The aggressive ones I'll be advising to keep an eye on military. But for the passive, does the game still shine/work if conflict is avoided?

Also, does trade not happen at all in 2 player then?
 
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Steve Wraxall
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mccrispy wrote:
heavyriffs wrote:
Misterboy wrote:

If you plan to get TtA, you should probably go here within the next 3 days:

Through the Ages Kickstarter


I had seen that, but the inability to pay via Paypal kills it for me, not everyone likes putting purchases on cards.
Plus we get nailed by customs charges, if it ships from the USA.
So I'll pick it up at retail, as and when...
Or check out the next UK Maths trade, I'll probably be putting my copy in.


I crumbled and backed the kickstarter.whistle

Would there have been anything in my trades you would have considered though? As for the life of me, I've not been able to work out maths trades at all...cry
 
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Steve Wraxall
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Rafael Ramus wrote:

I never bothered to suggest it as a variant here in the forum, but if after your first games you find that something is lacking in your experience with this game (most people don't!), I would be happy to share more of it.


I'd be happy to hear the variant either way.
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Aaron Cinzori
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TtA is very strategic with some tactics. Nations is very tactical with some strategy. CoC is between fairly balanced as to strategy and tactics.

CoC has dudes on a map, which the other two lack, and the resultant maneuvering in physical space.

TtA is the least luck-driven and the one to most reward repeated play and study.

Nations has the greatest game-to-game variability.

All are worth playing, but for me only TtA and CoC are worth buying.

I rank TtA a 10, CoC an 8, and Nations a 7.
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Steve Wraxall
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WonderCinz wrote:

All are worth playing, but for me only TtA and CoC are worth buying.

I rank TtA a 10, CoC an 8, and Nations a 7.


Where does time factor into your decisions then?

I've been more put off TtA as I doubt I could get anyone to play it with, due to perceived playing time. Although what I'm led to believe, CoC is hardly a quick game in itself.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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heavyriffs wrote:

Where does time factor into your decisions then?


It doesn't. I want to play the best game whether that's 2hrs or 10hrs. There's always time, and I'd rather play a better game than a shorter one. Actually, all things being equal, I'd rather play a longer one.
 
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Aaron Cinzori
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heavyriffs wrote:
WonderCinz wrote:

All are worth playing, but for me only TtA and CoC are worth buying.

I rank TtA a 10, CoC an 8, and Nations a 7.


Where does time factor into your decisions then?

I've been more put off TtA as I doubt I could get anyone to play it with, due to perceived playing time. Although what I'm led to believe, CoC is hardly a quick game in itself.


My most frequent (and favorite) configuration with all of those games is 3-player. I'd rather not play TtA with 4, but I'd be willing to play either of the others with 4. I'm also happy to play TtA with 2, but I wouldn't want to play the others with 2.

That said, TtA plays in 3-4 hours with 3, and Nations and CoC play in about 3 hours with 3. TtA is good enough that I'm willing to put in the extra hour. Nations and CoC add about an hour with a fourth player. TtA adds about 90 minutes with a fourth player.
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Allan Clements
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I think once CoC has it's first expansion with different nations, it will be the best of the 3.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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Kamakaze wrote:
I think once CoC has it's first expansion with different nations, it will be the best of the 3.


I think it already is...
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