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Subject: Not Having Fun - Why? rss

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Bart Skora
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I played all sorts of Mafia games and just recently wanted to test out the werewolf version, then I came across this game. At first I thought it was a bad idea of having just one night, but after awhile this game kept drawing me in especially with the no moderator and no elimination part. So I finally gave into this game and had a few rounds with around 3, 4, and even 5 people. There are just so many flaws that I ran into, that it's made my experience terrible and it really didn't make much sense because I'm in love with psychological games. Here is what I noticed...

* Unlike the original games like Werewolf and Mafia, you practically want to give out your role as soon as possible to claim innocence. There is no sitting back and watching how things play out until you catch a lie. If you're quiet you're a target so you want to speak as soon as possible, which kills the importance of most roles, making them useless. This rush kills the psychological aspect of the game and no one really cares about an outcome because there is only one night anyway, which means there is no real consequence for their actions. It doesn't help that there is also very little to go by.

* Most roles are extremely weak and really don't overly complicate things. I've tried so many variations and I've been forced to switch up roles as much as possible because the game got really tasteless and boring. I even had someone who wasn't playing which we called the "ghost" switch some cards around to keep things interesting.

* This game feels more like a weak memory game, even if the wolf complicates the game a little, it's very simple to add up the possible outcomes and come to a conclusion. This version removes deception and replaces it with some luck. I mean it usually comes down to not voting or lynching between two people and then the game is over, so the enjoyment dies quickly.

* When compared to Mafia or the Orginal Werewolf, this game lacks roles extensively. I mean only 12 roles? It's what made me think of more on my own.

Maybe I'm just playing it wrong, any tips?
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Jason Webster
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Trenix wrote:
I played all sorts of Mafia games and just recently wanted to test out the werewolf version, then I came across this game. At first I thought it was a bad idea of having just one night, but after awhile this game kept drawing me in especially with the no moderator and no elimination part. So I finally gave into this game and had a few rounds with around 3, 4, and even 5 people. There are just so many flaws that I ran into, that it's made my experience terrible and it really didn't make much sense because I'm in love with psychological games. Here is what I noticed...

* Unlike the original games like Werewolf and Mafia, you practically want to give out your role as soon as possible to claim innocence. There is no sitting back and watching how things play out until you catch a lie. If you're quiet you're a target so you want to speak as soon as possible, which kills the importance of most roles, making them useless. This rush kills the psychological aspect of the game and no one really cares about an outcome because there is only one night anyway, which means there is no real consequence for their actions. It doesn't help that there is also very little to go by.

* Most roles are extremely weak and really don't overly complicate things. I've tried so many variations and I've been forced to switch up roles as much as possible because the game got really tasteless and boring. I even had someone who wasn't playing which we called the "ghost" switch some cards around to keep things interesting.

* This game feels more like a weak memory game, even if the wolf complicates the game a little, it's very simple to add up the possible outcomes and come to a conclusion. This version removes deception and replaces it with some luck. I mean it usually comes down to not voting or lynching between two people and then the game is over, so the enjoyment dies quickly.

* When compared to Mafia or the Orginal Werewolf, this game lacks roles extensively. I mean only 12 roles? It's what made me think of more on my own.

Maybe I'm just playing it wrong, any tips?


I think you just don't like it... And that ok.

For my group. We love that you can play 15 mini games of Werewolf. Figuring out who the werewolf, who is lying and who isn't. Are they lying to catch the werewolf or are they the werewolf?? Good stuff
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Leif The Lucky
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Trenix wrote:
I played all sorts of Mafia games and just recently wanted to test out the werewolf version, then I came across this game. At first I thought it was a bad idea of having just one night, but after awhile this game kept drawing me in especially with the no moderator and no elimination part. So I finally gave into this game and had a few rounds with around 3, 4, and even 5 people. There are just so many flaws that I ran into, that it's made my experience terrible and it really didn't make much sense because I'm in love with psychological games. Here is what I noticed...

* Unlike the original games like Werewolf and Mafia, you practically want to give out your role as soon as possible to claim innocence. There is no sitting back and watching how things play out until you catch a lie. If you're quiet you're a target so you want to speak as soon as possible, which kills the importance of most roles. The game is just too rushed for a psychological game, no one really cares about an outcome because there is only one night so there is no real consequence. It doesn't help that there is also very little to go by.

* Most roles are extremely weak and really don't overly complicate things. I've tried so many variations and I've been forced to switch up roles as much as possible because the game got really tasteless and boring. I even had someone who wasn't playing which we called the "ghost" switch some cards around to keep things interesting.

* This game feels more like a weak memory game, even if the wolf complicates the game a little, it's very simple to add up the possible outcomes and come to a conclusion. This version removes deception and replaces it with some luck. I mean it usually comes down to not voting or lynching between two people, so the enjoyment dies quickly.

Any tips?


I love this game because it adds a lot MORE deception to the game. Do the good guys ever lie in your games? Lying will help them catch liars, solve games where they would have had to coin-flip, and will help them win games where they became bad-guys. I love this game because it's the only mafia type game I've found where the good guys have an incentive to lie. I've played hundreds of games of this, and if all the good-guys start off by telling the truth, they catch wolves occasionally, but often just lose.

Also, yes, it's good to be vocal, but there's no reason to tell the whole truth right off the bat. I love starting off with a lie, and when a werewolf claims my role or confirms that he saw my role, I roast him.

Also, have you played with minion and tanner? They add a lot of depth to the voting.

(Final note: you are not allowed to 'not vote'. When time runs out or everyone agrees, everyone must vote simultaneously for someone else, no sitting out)
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Bart Skora
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VikingJ wrote:
I love this game because it adds a lot MORE deception to the game. Do the good guys ever lie in your games? Lying will help them catch liars, solve games where they would have had to coin-flip, and will help them win games where they became bad-guys. I love this game because it's the only mafia type game I've found where the good guys have an incentive to lie. I've played hundreds of games of this, and if all the good-guys start off by telling the truth, they catch wolves occasionally, but often just lose.


With my games, everyone was always honest which really limited the werewolves. Everyone just made themselves innocent by stating what they are with no worries because there is no cycles in the game, therefore there is no consequences for revealing yourself. Once all the roles are drawn out, the wolf is forced to hide with another role usually making it a 50-50 chance of winning or losing. From what I've seen, just revealing your roles honestly is STRONGER than the role abilities that we have in the game.

VikingJ wrote:
Also, yes, it's good to be vocal, but there's no reason to tell the whole truth right off the bat. I love starting off with a lie, and when a werewolf claims my role or confirms that he saw my role, I roast him.


As a werewolf, I would never claim a role that sees another card, you're just asking for trouble. Unless of course you wanna quickly ruin the game as a seer by claiming someone else is werewolf and ending the game within a minute or so.


VikingJ wrote:
Also, have you played with minion and tanner? They add a lot of depth to the voting.


I haven't tried the minion because my group just didn't like the idea of it, I couldn't get them to try it but I did try the tanner. However when a tanner was added then the werewolves always claimed it and it became repetitive.

VikingJ wrote:
(Final note: you are not allowed to 'not vote'. When time runs out or everyone agrees, everyone must vote simultaneously for someone else, no sitting out)


I'm surprised that I didn't realize that rule. Thanks for letting me know.
 
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Xenothon Stelnicki
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Your wolves suck, A. B, stop fiddling with rules variations. Play the base game until your wolves improve and the whole experience will blossom for everyone. I would NEVER LOSE in a game where everyone just blurts out the truth. haha I mean, it'd be boring, but I'd win every time as a wolf. I mean, you've neutered the play of the game and turned it into straight deduction. Straight deduction only works once in a while in this game and in all but those few cases, the wolves should SLAUGHTER the villagers.

I highly suggest going back and starting from scratch and playing correctly and taking the handful of proper games it will take to have one or two players emerge who can actually play and then go from there.
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One Night WW isn't for everybody. And that's OK. But it sounds to me like your group is the victim of some serious groupthink about the game.

It is usually NOT a good idea for everyone to simply tell the truth. Even if I'm a good guy (lets say a villager), it may not be to my advantage to come out and say what I am. That's because, for all I know, I got switched with a Werewolf by the troublemaker and now I'm a wolf.

Part of what One Night has that traditional WW or Mafia does not is that you generally cannot be certain what role you are when you wake up. So part of the game is figuring out what team you are on. Even though you win with a team, One Night is not a team game.

Trenix wrote:
Everyone just made themselves innocent by stating what they are with no worries because there is no cycles in the game, therefore there is no consequences for revealing yourself.


This is incorrect. There is a consequence for revealing yourself. If you get switched to the Wolf team, then you just lost. In fact, I'm surprised that this hasn't happened with some frequency. Usually the "everyone just say what they are" thing happens for novice players the first few games. Then, they realize it can lose them the game and play starts to change.

Quote:
As a werewolf, I would never claim a role that sees another card, you're just asking for trouble. Unless of course you wanna quickly ruin the game as a seer by claiming someone else is werewolf and ending the game within a minute or so.


If that has become the norm for your group, why don't the werewolves do it? As a wolf, I'd jump out and say, "OK guys. Easy game. I'm the seer, I looked at Johnny, and he's a wolf. Lets vote and move on." Then when Johnny protests it would look like he's been caught. After all, a werewolf would never do that because he'd be asking for trouble, right? devil

Quote:
I haven't tried the minion because my group just didn't like the idea of it, I couldn't get them to try it but I did try the tanner. However when a tanner was added then the werewolves always claimed it and it became repetitive.


I'm not sure that the Minion would necessarily save the game for you. However, I feel like the Minion is mandatory any time I play with five (even four) or more. That's because, with the minion in play, someone at the table is hoping to draw the kill. So if someone seems suspicious, you have to ferret out whether that's a wolf or a minion.

Plus, why would werewolves claim the tanner? The real tanner would never claim. Because if he gets lynched, he wins and everyone else loses. So it makes no sense to say, "I'm the tanner." If you're really the tanner, you just lost. So if anyone says, "I'm the tanner" they are clearly a wolf. That's simply bad play.
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Kevin Garnica
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Trenix wrote:
So I finally gave into this game and had a few rounds with around 3, 4, and even 5 people. There are just so many flaws that I ran into, that it's made my experience terrible and it really didn't make much sense because I'm in love with psychological games. Here is what I noticed...

* Most roles are extremely weak and really don't overly complicate things.

Maybe I'm just playing it wrong, any tips?


Yeah, I got some tips for you. I don't know where you live, but if you are in LA/OC, you should come watch it being played at our Monday night gaming group. MyParadox (the user above me) is in my group and he's right with everything he has said.

But in all seriousness, I will tell you right now, it's NOT the game. But it's going to take too long to expound why it isn't the game in the space of a reply on BGG. For starters, if you can, try playing it with more players past 5.
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Des Lee
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I think the main problem with groups not liking ONUW is that they approach it as a shorter werewolf.

It's not.

I like that it's pretty much the only social deduction game I know of where you have to both deduce AND bluff to be sure you're on the winning team at the end of the game.
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Andy Knudsen
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MyParadox wrote:

Plus, why would werewolves claim the tanner? The real tanner would never claim. Because if he gets lynched, he wins and everyone else loses. So it makes no sense to say, "I'm the tanner." If you're really the tanner, you just lost. So if anyone says, "I'm the tanner" they are clearly a wolf. That's simply bad play.


Clearly.whistle
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GeekInsight
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epicgamer wrote:
MyParadox wrote:

Plus, why would werewolves claim the tanner? The real tanner would never claim. Because if he gets lynched, he wins and everyone else loses. So it makes no sense to say, "I'm the tanner." If you're really the tanner, you just lost. So if anyone says, "I'm the tanner" they are clearly a wolf. That's simply bad play.


Clearly.whistle


Unless, the tanner knows that by claiming tanner you'll think he's a wolf and lynch him! Clearly I cannot trust the wine in front of you.
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According to BGG the best number of players to play this with is 6 or 7. I think with 3 or 4 it's a different kind of game. I believe there was a thread with tips for beginners. It does take a number of 'learning' games before you really get the hang of it. But even then, it might not be the game for you. I took me 5 games with a group of 5 to really start enjoying the game. Some games are just so memorable, I really love it.
 
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Goo
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Are you playing with the Robber and the Troublemaker? The role switching is what makes the game work. Like MyParadox says, the first half of the day phase is trying to figure out which team you are on. This is why I think the game gets boring with more players. I much prefer 4-6 players.

Also how much time are you giving? If you give 10 minutes, good will win almost every time. We play with only 3-5 minutes (usually 3) depending on the number of players.

The ticking clock and trying to learn if you've been switched are what drive the game.
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Paul S
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Trenix you're certainly not alone in having some issues getting into the game.

My first few games fell totally flat - and this for a group that loves social deduction.

But it's now one of our favourites.

Spend half an hour in the forums here looking at tips and I almost guarantee you'll find a new way to play. Lying is really important. Recognising that even if you're a Wolf, you're maybe not a Wolf once night ends, is important too.

A great tip I had was to ditch villagers altogether. Really, they aren't necessary and especially in early games can be perceived as boring. So get rid.

I am very glad we persevered.
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Robert Stewart
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Simple scenario:

I'm a Wolf, see another Wolf, and as soon as the night ends announce that I was the Troublemaker and switched the guy who was the other Wolf and some random person. After a brief pause, the other Wolf speaks up to say he was a Wolf, so everyone should lynch the random guy.

It's possible that someone knows I'm lying about being the TM - provided they speak up quickly, my fellow Wolf can point to them as the other Wolf.

It won't always work, but often enough to to beat the "I'm the seer" "No, I'm the seer" strategy
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Clyde W
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The game is amazing and I can't stop playing it.

Come play on the forums with us and you'll get it, I promise!
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D.M. Jones
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MyParadox wrote:
But it sounds to me like your group is the victim of some serious groupthink about the game.



This cuts right to the heart of it. Since roles change all players have reason to employ lies, half-lies and the odd bit truth. What you say you think happened will largely depend on the role you think you have in front of you at the end. The daytime discussion is tense because you are gathering information and giving information/misinformation but are also trying to avoid painting yourself into a corner. In short, all players need to be very flexible and creative. Your group doesn't sound like it is doing that at all. And really, the discussion where you give information/misinformation, while trying to figure out what you are and how you should vote, is the heart and soul of the game. It is what gives it the tension and makes it fun. I think it is falling flat for you because you forgot to put air in the tires. Paradox is also right in saying that no game is for everyone. I think it is worth giving another shot, but you guys really need to take a step back and fill up the tires.

Have you tried watching videos of any ONUWW gaming sessions? I feel like it might help for you to watch some experienced players.

Here is one for you to get a feel of the basic flow:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-4uDuH4xXLg

I will add though that our group lies a LOT more.
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Luke Hector
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I just played 8 games in a row teaching new gamers tonight - we had games ranging from 6 to 10 players. We all loved it and I think it's brilliant. I don't like normal Werewolf for it's length and elimination aspect - this however combined with the app is just glorius fun.

No way is there a special "do this and it's easy" tactic, everyone plays differently, everyone has different ways of lying or passing blame and we've had solid plays by Minions, Werewolves, Seers, Masons, and the like.

No game is the same and 5-10 minutes after each game are spent laughing over what just happened in that 5 minute game. Solid filler.
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