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Subject: Manor of Ravens hero preview rss

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Dirk Meijer
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http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4928

Marshal looks really cool, but Alys is probably the only one who can use I Am The Law.

I'm kind of disappointed in Thaiden's Heroic Ability, he's probably one of the worst Scouts so far, but Bounty Hunter looks excellent, especially when there's a boss monster that needs to be taken down.
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alex
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Same for Alys

but I don't think Thaiden's ability is so weak. Could be very helpfull as a treasure hunter, and replace a miss attack by a search. Not the best one, but not the worst
 
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Rafal Areinu
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Ouch, by the book is evil. With 4 book all basic cards become really hard to use effectively. Obviously heroes will save it for the really important cards. Overlord will have to lower that heroes stamina, or bluff the hero into using the ability on some less important card.

Say, that one Dash card is difference between win or loss. If By the book cancels it then overlord can't even play another one on the same monster if he has one. And it costs only 1 fatigue... And heroes might have a way to reroll failed tests. And Fortune tokens will get very useful with this.

Even with 1xp cards that card is bonkers. With 2 and 3 xp cards it's not so good, but overlord won't have many of those...

Just compare it to Danger Sense. That costs 2 fatigue and an activation and discards 1 card at random. By the book costs 1 fatigue, a test, and you know exactly what card you discard, you also know what card overlord will draw next turn, you also stop overlord in his track.

Oh, and Alys can use her feat during any player's turn. That means she could use By the book twice. I think she could use it twice even against single overlord card, if she failed first time. Oh, and that means that even if overlord manages to get all of her fatigue down she will still be able to use By the book. Yay!

But then even without this feat Zealous Fire means hero will be able to first recover fatigue when OL plays card, and then use that fatigue to basically get By the book for free.

This thing is more evil than any overlord ever was or will be.

Honestly, at this point in time I don't really have an idea how to deal with that feat + By the book. This completely turns off overlord cards after 2nd quest. By that time overlord has at most 2 1xp cards in his deck. Then hero can get Zealous Fire, meaning fatigue lowering schemes won't be much use, and overlord still doesn't have even single 2xp card. And there's always threat of hero using feat to try again against very important card, or when overlord manages to fool hero into using By the book on something not that important.

This will encourage overlord card hoarding for 2nd encounter, and then mass using them in single turn. Like that at least you have to deal with the feat only once, and can dish more cards that can be cancelled. By using only 1 card during a round you basically give heroes free cancel.

Fellow overlord, any ideas?
 
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Ryan Stripling
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If you're the OL, it's pretty simple: don't buy this expansion, or hide this class :-). Other than that, I've got nothing. You can keep targetting her with attacks, and hope to knock her out to max out her fatigue and get in the cards that you want while she's down, and also try to hold back from playing cards until you have enough to feint with some good ones while saving your great ones until after she uses the skill.

But yeah, it's gonna be rough.

-ryanjamal
 
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Stephen Williams
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dwjmeijer wrote:

Marshal looks really cool, but Alys is probably the only one who can use I Am The Law.


...Because she's probably the only Warrior with Intelligence high enough to reliably pass the attribute test?

Honestly, that bit is more of a bonus to me. I'd happily use this skill with any Warrior just for the bonus attack, and if I happen to inflict a Condition that's just cake.

On another note, I haven't seen the Marshal's starting weapon, but I assume it has Reach? Seems like something aspiring Marshals will want to keep in mind as they buy new weapons, otherwise this skill might get gimped suddenly.

Mechanics aside, I'm really liking the idea of the marshal as a Terrinoth take on paladins.
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Christopher Markham
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Areinu wrote:
Ouch, by the book is evil...

Fellow overlord, any ideas?


Seems obvious to me. If the Marshal wants to sink XP into wrecking your day with OL cards, don't pin all your hopes on OL cards.

If a player picks up the Marshal class, you pick up a plot deck from a lieutenant pack and spend your XP on threat tokens rather than OL cards that'll get denied.

Pick a deck that doesn't interact too heavily or rely too heavily on OL cards, obviously. Alric Farrow and Splig are good options, things like that.

Rock on, my fellow evil overlords. Make them bleed.
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Rafal Areinu
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Ludus Rex wrote:
Areinu wrote:
Ouch, by the book is evil...

Fellow overlord, any ideas?


Seems obvious to me. If the Marshal wants to sink XP into wrecking your day with OL cards, don't pin all your hopes on OL cards.

If a player picks up the Marshal class, you pick up a plot deck from a lieutenant pack and spend your XP on threat tokens rather than OL cards that'll get denied.

Pick a deck that doesn't interact too heavily or rely too heavily on OL cards, obviously. Alric Farrow and Splig are good options, things like that.

Rock on, my fellow evil overlords. Make them bleed.

Disagree. Plot decks aren't good enough to sorely rely on. Not to mention your answer is "spend more money to defeat something you spent money on". I mean, yeah, I have ALL Lieutenant packs, but that's not really good answer.

And abusing Lieutenant packs gives too much Fortune out, you can't push them much more than normally, or you'll get bitten back by it.

Then remember that it's just 2, max 3 xp that this hero needs. He can spend rest to wreck monsters or something.
 
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Christopher Wionzek
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Yeah I'm not grabbing this expansion up right away...that's just too powerful a hard counter to cards, which is _the only thing the OL has_.

It needs to be at least 2 Stam or add 1+XP cost to the roll. That at least puts her at 3 on Basic cards, which is reasonable to fail. Being able to gut Dash and Frenzy basically at-will is just too good.

There's Wicked Laughter but now you're spending 2 cards to get one card off, in a situation that's never existed before...just being straight-up countered at the ONE THING YOU CAN DO.
 
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Vespino Robert
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Even as a regular overlord player, I'm not too worried about By the Book. Alys is the only warrior (even including the conversion kit heroes) with a high enough Knowledge to come close to being able rely on it (72% pass rate; not guaranteed), and from what we've seen of the Marshal class, it's not the heavy hitter most warrior classes are - it actually looks like it will play more like a scout class without the search token interactions. So in the end, unless the rest of the deck is amazing, any hero team with a Marshal in it is going to have to sacrifice something.
 
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Christopher Wionzek
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Vespinito wrote:
Even as a regular overlord player, I'm not too worried about By the Book. Alys is the only warrior (even including the conversion kit heroes) with a high enough Knowledge to come close to being able rely on it (72% pass rate; not guaranteed), and from what we've seen of the Marshal class, it's not the heavy hitter most warrior classes are - it actually looks like it will play more like a scout class without the search token interactions. So in the end, unless the rest of the deck is amazing, any hero team with a Marshal in it is going to have to sacrifice something.


No, see, the problem with By The Book is that it has TWO effects.

Yes, your spell is countered. But then you put the card RIGHT BACK ON TOP OF YOUR DECK.

So not only have they stopped you from doing something THIS turn, they also know the NEXT card you're going to draw...and that they can still reliably counter it.

So the entire next Overlord draw is wasted, on top of their spell not going off. And when you only get one card a turn, wasting that card is a Big Deal.

You cannot surprise Heroes if they're using By The Book, because they're always going to have a pretty good idea of what you're going to have in your hand. Combine this will multiple Heroes who can manipulate your hand and you're in pretty dire straights.

Frankly I would be happier if you DISCARDED the card that was countered, because at least then the Heroes wouldn't be getting knowledge of the next card you're going to pick up.
 
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Rafal Areinu
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Vespinito wrote:
Even as a regular overlord player, I'm not too worried about By the Book. Alys is the only warrior (even including the conversion kit heroes) with a high enough Knowledge to come close to being able rely on it (72% pass rate; not guaranteed), and from what we've seen of the Marshal class, it's not the heavy hitter most warrior classes are - it actually looks like it will play more like a scout class without the search token interactions. So in the end, unless the rest of the deck is amazing, any hero team with a Marshal in it is going to have to sacrifice something.


+1 to what Dragoonkin wrote

Sure, heroes have to sacrifice something(big hitter), but other abilities can do nice damage too. This class has amazing crowd control, and played smart it can be doing a lot of damage to monsters, and putting a lot of problems before overlord.

But the overlord will have a way of playing around that crowd control stuff. Sometimes this will require thinking 1-2 turns ahead, and will add a lot of additional tactics to the game. Which is great, because game gets improved for both sides.

And sure, she might be the only warrior who can pull it off, but if it is as good as it seems then I'm afraid other warrior heroes and classes will see a drop in usage. That's not good.

72% chance, plus with fortune token 1 die can be rerolled, plus by the end of interlude the heroes are guaranteed to get that test rerolling item, plus with heroic feat she can do it again(and she can again use fortune to reroll it). I'm not in mood to calculate it, but the odds are not good. And we can safely assume she will have at least 1 fortune token, as with overlord cards countered that much Plot deck will be a must.

It really doesn't look like what they are sacrificing is such a big deal compared to what they gain. Plus if this class is so much like a Scout then heroes can sacrifice Scout, and just have 2 Warriors.
 
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Dirk Meijer
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I really like Alys' Ability, it kinda draws Aggro to her, by punishing the OL for attacking the less buffy heroes adjacent to her.

Stewi wrote:
dwjmeijer wrote:

Marshal looks really cool, but Alys is probably the only one who can use I Am The Law.


...Because she's probably the only Warrior with Intelligence high enough to reliably pass the attribute test?


Ah, I meant By The Book, sorry.
 
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Dean L
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Yeah, by the book is nasty, and to me goes against one of the core design ideas of Descent. It's one of only two things in the game that messes with Overlord cards, and the notion that the heroes have no idea what the Overlord has in hand, and no way to stop it, is part of the design. The Overlord can make plans based on perfect information, but the heroes can't.

That said, I'd settle for the card just going back to the Overlord hand rather than discarded to the top of the deck. As is, it really feels more like a 3xp, 3 stamina card to me.
 
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Ondrej Kocnar
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Deano2099 wrote:
Yeah, by the book is nasty, and to me goes against one of the core design ideas of Descent. It's one of only two things in the game that messes with Overlord cards, and the notion that the heroes have no idea what the Overlord has in hand, and no way to stop it, is part of the design. The Overlord can make plans based on perfect information, but the heroes can't.

That said, I'd settle for the card just going back to the Overlord hand rather than discarded to the top of the deck. As is, it really feels more like a 3xp, 3 stamina card to me.


I dont feel it being against the core design, but also strongly feel it should be 3 stamina card. Danger Sense costs 2 stamina AND an action.
I wonder what people at FFG were thinking designing this one.
It seems it would be still OP at 2 stamina.
 
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Raphael Pigulla
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For those of us who speak German and have a dirty mind... "Alys Raine" is probably the worst name for a heroine in the history of games. I wonder if there's a porn star with that name, but I fear what a Google search would turn up.
 
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Rafal Areinu
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n3rd wrote:
For those of us who speak German and have a dirty mind... "Alys Raine" is probably the worst name for a heroine in the history of games. I wonder if there's a porn star with that name, but I fear what a Google search would turn up.

Surprisingly safe results. The hottest thing around was cover of some romance book, similar to what you could see on the cover of Twilight or 50 shades of grey.

But since most of the results were related to Descent I'm willing to wager that google just personalized search for me, and I often search Descent related stuff.
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Ralf Schemmann
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My imagination is obviously not dirty enough and a Google search didn't turn up anything remotely pornographic. Drat. cool
 
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Chris J Davis
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n3rd wrote:
For those of us who speak German and have a dirty mind... "Alys Raine" is probably the worst name for a heroine in the history of games. I wonder if there's a porn star with that name, but I fear what a Google search would turn up.


I just asked my Swiss German-speaking friend and he says he has no idea what you could be talking about. The only thing I can think of is that "Alys" sounds like "alles", which means "everything", but after that I'm lost.
 
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Ian McCarthy
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My German wife has no idea what could be suggestively pornographic about Alys Raine in German.

I also think that it's premature for people who haven't played the new marshal class to declare that it's overpowered or broken. I think "By The Book" sounds flavorful and cool and I bet that it's a lot more difficult to use than it appears.
 
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Raphael Pigulla
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Well, if you must know...

It reminded me of "Alles Rein" which one could be interpreted in a dirty way, although I'd agree that it is a little bit of a stretch for people with an only averagely dirty mind. *coughs*

Anyhoo, nothing to see here. Move along.
 
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Chris J Davis
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n3rd wrote:
Well, if you must know...

It reminded me of "Alles Rein" which one could be interpreted in a dirty way, although I'd agree that it is a little bit of a stretch for people with an only averagely dirty mind. *coughs*

Anyhoo, nothing to see here. Move along.


I guess you could - at a stretch - imply that the everything that is now clean are parts that are often dirty, but... that's quite a stretch.

Anyway, it seems that she has quite an appropriate name for her native class, as she makes sure that everything is done "by the book", and that, indeed, "everything's clean".
 
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okocnar wrote:
Deano2099 wrote:
Yeah, by the book is nasty, and to me goes against one of the core design ideas of Descent. It's one of only two things in the game that messes with Overlord cards, and the notion that the heroes have no idea what the Overlord has in hand, and no way to stop it, is part of the design. The Overlord can make plans based on perfect information, but the heroes can't.

That said, I'd settle for the card just going back to the Overlord hand rather than discarded to the top of the deck. As is, it really feels more like a 3xp, 3 stamina card to me.


I dont feel it being against the core design, but also strongly feel it should be 3 stamina card. Danger Sense costs 2 stamina AND an action.
I wonder what people at FFG were thinking designing this one.
It seems it would be still OP at 2 stamina.


3 Stamina would be way too high, I think. You have to consider everything about it.

Danger Sense:
2 XP
1 Action
2 Stamina
Random card
Guaranteed success
Card goes into discard

By the Book:
2 XP
0 Actions
1 Stamina (+1 if fail)
Targeted card (more unlikely to work on higher value cards)
Random success
Card goes back on top of deck

I could see making it a 2 Stamina skill and keeping the rest the same. I think the balance idea is that every time you use it (and especially if you use it with any Warrior that isn't Alys Raine), there is a chance you're just going to burn 2 Stamina to no effect.
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Drew Thomson
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Dexter345 wrote:
I think the balance idea is that every time you use it (and especially if you use it with any Warrior that isn't Alys Raine), there is a chance you're just going to burn 2 Stamina to no effect.


Agreed.

I don't think there's any cause for great alarm over this skill. It's really nice, but it doesn't break the game.
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Rafal Areinu
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sdrewthomson wrote:
Dexter345 wrote:
I think the balance idea is that every time you use it (and especially if you use it with any Warrior that isn't Alys Raine), there is a chance you're just going to burn 2 Stamina to no effect.


Agreed.

I don't think there's any cause for great alarm over this skill. It's really nice, but it doesn't break the game.


It's 1 stamina for no effect if you get that skill that recovers your stamina whenever overlord uses a card.

But even without this, chance to burn 2 stamina with no effect isn't that bad compared to chance of stopping overlord from playing crucial overlord card, seeing the future(you know what card OL will draw), and making OL unable to play the same card on that monster again(even if he had 2 on his hand).

Is it a gamble? Yes. Is it a gamble worth taking? Very. Especially if the team has nice way to recover stamina.

Fortunately at the moment there are no Act I items that increase book, and there's only one to do this in 2nd act, but there's still possibility of 5 Knowledge Alys Rayne with that nice item that rerolls dice. Even with 4 Knowledge she can essentially roll 4 difficulty test 3 times, which gives pretty good chance of passing.

Even if Alys Rayne will be the only warrior to ever successfully use that ability it doesn't change the fact she will exist. Even if overlord won't be dominated by the ability, even right now many quests end up very close.

Often playing that one Overlord card is difference between winning and losing, especially in quests that are favoring heroes. Now in those situations heroes will easily be able to counter overlord. Even if this is a chance it still will leave many games with bad taste. No matter who will get lucky.

As I mentioned before heroes can get this ability long before overlord gets any cards more expensive than 1. I should add that monst popular cards to cancel will be Dash and Frenzy. And since you'll be getting your "weak" cards cancelled you'll be going trough the deck slower, so finding level 3 cards will be harder.

I don't want to even think about Basic 2 deck against it. It already has to work hard to get the desired effect.

Also, as a hero player(on rare occasions when I get someone else to overlord) I don't like the fact that they made a skill that is pretty much only for Alys. Most Warriors have 1-2 Knowledge, which is not enough to buy it. Out of few guys who have 3 Hawthorne and Valadir don't have enough stamina to spare(they would probably make bad Marshal anyway). That leaves only Syndrael, which might kind of barely pull it, with right support.

Other warriors basically get 1 skill they will never choose, which will limit their class building abilities. It's like Breaking Rune of Runemaster, which I could just throw away, if not for the fact I get nauseous just thinking about breaking part of board game.
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Dean L
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You can get items that boost stats, at which point for Alys it becomes practically a guaranteed success and a high chance for many others against basic cards.

Actually, I wouldn't mind it if it worked only against non-basic cards. But the number of games where the difference between winning and losing has been one dash card (either drawing it and winning, or not and losing) is so high, especially in the base campaign.

If it only worked for cards of cost one or higher, then every roll would at least have some risk, while not affecting the Overlord's fundamental strategy.
 
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