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Terra Mystica» Forums » Rules

Subject: Preventing the other players, doing sneaky stuff? rss

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j s
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Can you do or buy actions, that don't necessarily benefit you, but will prevent the other players to do or buy them?

1. Buy a priest even if you have no priests left
2. Buy a bridge even if you have no bridges left
3. Place your priest on the cult board, even if you are already in the level 10
4. Place a priest on the cult board, even if you cannot move higher than the level 9 (you have no keys left)
5. (for the future expansion) Buy a spade even though your faction cannot use any


+ A Bonus question...

When using the end bonus spades, I am under the impression that you start from the person who is going to start the next round and you go clockwise direction using the spades. In a situation where players have multiple spades to use, do the players use all their spades at once or one by one taking multiple turns?
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Rhett Morgan
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Of course you can do all of those things but 9 times out of 10 they will cost you more resources and points than another move you may have. Also, yes to your last. In future turn order, all at once digs.
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French M
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As far as I am aware you must be able to do the action that you are buying/performing.
1. No. You can't buy a priest as you have placed them all on cult tracks already.
2. No. Bridges are limited to three.
3. No. You can place a priest on another cult track though and seeing as no-one can match you at level 10 I don't understand the point of doing this?
4. No. You must use another cult track or use your priest for something else.
5. Unsure
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Juho Snellman
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(1/2/3/4) None of these is forbidden by the rules. 3/4 have explicitly been ruled valid by Helge. By analogy, I believe the 1/2 are also valid.

(5) Depends on what you mean by "buy" a spade. Using the power actions should be ok. Converting workers to spades will not be ok. First, these factions will not have any defined worker to spade conversion ratio. Second, converting workers to spades is restricted to at most the amount you need for transforming a single given target space to the desired terrain.

Note that this is not just an issue with the expansion. It's also relevant for the Giants in the base game.
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Jens Droegemueller
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Dinolord wrote:

5. (for the future expansion) Buy a spade even though your faction cannot use any


No: riverwalker
Yes: the other 5
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Wolfer Vanwey
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An official ruling on the ability to take the power actions as the riverwalkers and do nothing with the spades hasn't been given yet.
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j s
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frenchymm wrote:
3. No. You can place a priest on another cult track though and seeing as no-one can match you at level 10 I don't understand the point of doing this?


In the following example there are three people playing:

Lets say that there is only one space left for a priest in a given cult track and that there is a tight competition with victory points with the third player (on the same cult track) and you. In this situation you might want to fill the remaining priest slot, making it harder for the third player to pass the second player and therefore limiting his/hers victory points income.
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j s
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jsnell wrote:
(1/2/3/4) None of these is forbidden by the rules. 3/4 have explicitly been ruled valid by Helge. By analogy, I believe the 1/2 are also valid.


I am aware that Helge has explained that you can, for example, put a priest on a cult track even if you cannot move the full range. But we have had some disagreements with my gaming group on whether you could still do this even if you cannot move at all. (you are on level 9 and you stay on this level, even after putting the priest). With this move, you could prevent a player to get even with you on a cult track.


jsnell wrote:
(5) Depends on what you mean by "buy" a spade. Using the power actions should be ok. Converting workers to spades will not be ok. First, these factions will not have any defined worker to spade conversion ratio. Second, converting workers to spades is restricted to at most the amount you need for transforming a single given target space to the desired terrain.


Yes sorry I wasn't clear enough but I meant buying the power action. I had the Riverwalkers in mind, as they cannot even use spades.

jsnell wrote:
Note that this is not just an issue with the expansion. It's also relevant for the Giants in the base game.


So does this mean, that the Giants can buy the 1 spade power action, even if they don't pay extra workers for the second spade needed and thus cannot really use it?

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Wolfer Vanwey
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Any one can take any power action, as an action, as long as they have the power is how we've always played it. It leads to interesting choices, and opens up additional options for strategy. There's nothing in the rules that says you have to be able to fully utilize the action to use it.
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Rhett Morgan
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All power actions are 'may' actions. I don't see why riverwalkers would be disadvantaged further than any other race. Even giants can take the one spade without adding another spade. They can also use the spade action tile without receiving an extra dig. These just amount to null actions with no result.
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Helge Ostertag
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WolferGrowl wrote:
An official ruling on the ability to take the power actions as the riverwalkers and do nothing with the spades hasn't been given yet.


http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1200666/can-riverwalkers...


EDIT:

jsnell wrote:
(1/2/3/4) None of these is forbidden by the rules. 3/4 have explicitly been ruled valid by Helge. By analogy, I believe the 1/2 are also valid.


1,2,3,4: as Juho said
5: Jens answered it above... and see my link
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Rhett Morgan
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That's an incredibly severe disadvantage. I either assume they were too powerful or this was a thematic nerfing...

Can you even choose the race if there are cult dig bonuses? Theoretically they would then come in contact with terraforming if they had sufficient cult presence.

Furthermore, are you allowed to choose the passing tile with the spade on it?
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Robert
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Prodigaldax wrote:
That's an incredibly severe disadvantage. I either assume they were too powerful or this was a thematic nerfing...

Can you even choose the race if there are cult dig bonuses? Theoretically they would then come in contact with terraforming if they had sufficient cult presence.

Furthermore, are you allowed to choose the passing tile with the spade on it?
From Helge's linked answer above ("Riverwalkers just don't terraform. They can't do, perform or spend anything that has to do with terraforming. "), I'd conclude that riverwalkers can take the spade bonus tile, but are not allowed to use it (not even to waste a turn without passing). I.e. they will pass without having covered the spade action.
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Rhett Morgan
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I am fine with that. I just don't understand why it exists. Maybe I will when I play the expansion.
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Wolfer Vanwey
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Man, not being able to use the actions to delay passing, that's going to be interesting. No ability to get VPs from Shipping track, or digging track either. Also, not being able to fully take advantage of their priest income for cult scoring.... a lot of downsides. I'll have to try them out.
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Robert
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Riverwalkers also cannot delay by spreading a "two-spade terraform and build" action across three turns. So, the player with the Riverwalkers is likely to lose a "let's see who has to pass first and get a bad bonus tile" game. But as the player knows this, he/she can adapt.

OTOH, Riverwalkers have no need to dig at all, and all the workers/power which other races need to spend on digging, the Riverwalkers can put to other uses. I presume as a Riverwalker, you want to have an early temple, have high interest in the 3pw priest power action and prefer games with the priest bonus tile. Once you've cleaned 2-3 hex types for cheap building, your expansion should be quick, especially if there's the +1 shipping bonus tile available for you to jump blocking hexes along the shore.
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