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A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: Robert´s Rebellion rss

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Erik Amberger
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Introduction
Fifteen years before the events of "A Song of Ice and Fire", the Seven Kingdoms are still under the rule of "Mad King" Aerys II Targaryen. His paranoia and cruelty have incited a rebellion led by the young and powerful Robert Baratheon, who means to set an end to the Targaryen dynasty once and for all. Many great houses heed this call for justice, while others stay loyal to their king and some pursue other motives still.

Robert´s Rebellion attempts to recreate this atmosphere by adding two new playable houses, revised maps for 7 or 8 players, house cards, a new allegiance system, optional rules and everything you need to print and (with some artistic skill) reproduce your own copy. Have fun!




Allegiance and victory conditions

In Robert´s Rebellion, you will find that players will more urgently have to form teams in order to win the game and more than a single faction can do so.

After assigning houses to the players, form a pool of influence tokens from all houses (or any other way to randomly determine someone´s allegiance).
The Targaryen player starts by drawing and revealing one of the influence tokens at random (make sure it is not the Targaryen or Baratheon token). This player will be the "Hand of the King" at the start of the game, a special office later described.
In turn the other players draw, but don´t reveal an influence token (make sure that the Baratheon player does not draw the Targaryen token). This will determine their "allegiance" and victory conditions.

The King
He starts with twice the amount of units than everyone else, has considerably strong house cards and positions on the influence tracks, but he must beware of attacks on all fronts.
He wins the game if he controls more castles and strongholds than anyone else at the end of the game or captures three enemy home regions.

The Loyalist
The player who has drawn the Targaryen token will be his only reliable ally. A public declaration of his loyalty could however draw the "unwanted attention" of the Rebels.
He wins the game if the Targaryen player wins and he still controls his home region.

The Rebel
The common rebel´s main goal is to usurp the King, but he still fights some quarrel of his own. A player who has drawn the token of a different house will be that house´s archenemy.
He wins the game if the Targaryen player loses and he controls more castles and strongholds than that player.

The Conqueror
A player who draws the token of his own house will take on the role of a ruthless and egoistic conqueror. He doesn´t care who sits on the Iron Throne as long as he is the one with the most power. His only objective is to expand his reign on the cost of everyone else.
He wins the game if he controls more castles and strongholds than anyone else at the end of the game.

Additionally all players can still achieve immediate victory by controlling seven or more castles and strongholds as long as the Targaryen player does not control as many.

The Hand
The Hand of the King has some advantages over the other players. At the beginning of each turn (except the first), he may secretly look at the top cards of all Westeros Decks and place one of them on the bottom of the Deck, he decides ties when bidding on the influence tracks (except when in a tie with the king) and may play one additional special order each turn.
Apart from his own, he can pursue an optional victory condition. He wins, if the Targaryen player wins and he controls the second-most castles and strongholds of all players.
As appealing as this office may seem, it carries risks. Other Lords might question your commitment to the rebellion and the "Mad King" is notorious to punish any sign of treason. Should a player ever lose his handship, he is immediately moved to the last space on the King´s Court Track.

Influence Tracks
Iron Throne - 1. Targaryen 2. Baratheon 3. Lannister 4. Martell 5. Arryn 6. Stark 7. Tyrell 8. Greyjoy
Fiefdoms - 1. Greyjoy 2. Baratheon 3. Targaryen 4. Tyrell 5. Arryn 6. Martell 7. Stark 8. Lannister
King´s Court - 1. Lannister 2. Targaryen 3. Stark 4. Baratheon 5. Arryn 6. Martell 7. Greyjoy 8. Tyrell

Optional rules (for game balance and personal preferences)
When bidding on the Iron Throne Track, the Targaryen player does not have to bid any tokens, but stays on the first space for the whole game. Other players may bid regularly for all other positions.
The Targaryen player gets a second -1 march order. Recommended at least for the 8-player game.
The Targaryen player starts with more power tokens
Move the ship in Dragonstone´s harbor to King´s Landing´s, if you want to prevent an early naval attack. Recommended only for the 7-player game
The Baratheon player can not become Hand of the King

You can download all the files here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uc54wylhurzgqzc/AAClHDFLouwGRert8...

I will be updating the missing files in the next few days.
Also, if anyone has some high quality templates for the Stark House cards, those would be much appreciated.

A lot of the artwork is based upon the "Winds-Of-Winter-Expansion", without it this would have been much harder. Thanks a lot.
Thanks also go out to all creative minds, posting their variants on this forum and adding new ideas to this great game.

I hope you like this one, any response would be great
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Kokken Tor
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Good job, it looks fun!

A thematic scenario like this wouldn't work under the normal rules, and your allegiance system looks promising. Have you played Bang! by any chance? The roles seem similar, with a public Sheriff (Targaryen) and secret teams.

The rules for the Hand looks quite crazy, have you playtestet it and seen have it plays out?

As of now it is quite open which houses will be on which "team", apart from Baratheon who will be a Rebel/Conqueror. I guess you could rig it so that Stark/Arryn/Baratheon are rebels and Lannister/Tyrell/Martell will be Loyalists/Hand, with maybe a random secret Conqueror in each group.

For a better thematic setup you could remove Greyjoy (who stayed neutral in the conflict) and include Tully instead. Will probably require more map modding though.
 
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Erik Amberger
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Hello.
Haven´t played Bang!, actually the allegiance system was inspired by the BSG board game. I wouldn´t want to preset the teams in this game though, except for the obvious Targaryen-Baratheon hostility, so that each game will have a little different political landscape, even if that means upsetting the ASOIAF-theme. All players have to figure out who to trust and how to benefit from the situation. There will be more rebels than loyalists however, that´s why I´ve added the Hand. Targaryen will try to win his favor and vice versa, but the starting Hand may not be the best choice, since he cannot at the same time be a conqueror, who I think would make the best Hand, so Targaryen will have to look for another.
So in the best case for Targaryen, i´ts him, a loyalist and a loyal hand against 4 or 5 enemies. I think that could work, considering Targaryen´s starting position.
Which core rules do you think need to be changed?
 
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Kokken Tor
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My concrete suggestions were only for thematic purposes. I don't see any core rules that need to be changed until after playtesting.

I haven't played BSG yet, but it's a game I've read a lot about lately and want to play. I love games with secret teams/traitor mechanics (Bang!, Resistance, Werewolf), and I think your system looks promising.

When does the game end, when someone reach 7 castles and/or after 10 rounds?
 
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Erik Amberger
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I´m not quite sure myself, how the game will play out with these "teams".
As a rebel you´ll want to concentrate on fighting Targaryen, but you may be forced to stab your other "allies" in the back. I´m still working on my own version, so I haven´t tested it yet. If there are enough people interested, I can try to make it PBF-playable. Don´t know how though.

Quote:
When does the game end, when someone reach 7 castles and/or after 10 rounds?

The game ends after 10 rounds, when Targaryen takes the third home region or any player gets to 7 or more castles/strongholds and Targaryen does not control that many castles/strongholds at the same time.
 
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Alessandro Mazzotti
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Awesome!
I think a game like AGoT will be better if there are different objectives and role. Moreover this is more thematic than the classic games!

I think the roles of Conqueror/Loyalist/Hand will be better if they are assigned random for a better re-playable games and for a sort of "what if".

The ability of the Hand is too powerfull IMHO. Looking all the westeros cards is a great advantage. Probably it is better if the Hand could see 1 Westeros Card… Ok for the extra special order and the optional victory condition. I’m not sure about the ability of deciding all ties when bidding on the influence tracks, especially because IMHO it is not necessary (there is a King for that task). It is also a good idea to have a random Hand.

House Tully is better for the role they have had in the Rebellion (the riverlands were theatre of many battles!), but I think using also the Greyjoy will be very interesting: they were neutral during the Robert’s Rebellion, but after few years they began their own rebellion. Could you make this a 9 player game???

I am very interested to try this variant PBF! Tell me something if you mod a game!!!

 
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Aaron T
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Has anyone had any luck printing out just a couple overlays for the changed areas on the board? I did it for a 7 Player House Arryn- there was a jpeg (actually a pdf I think) and another posted to go to the printers and just blow it up 135%. Works splendidly! Alas I am not a photoshopper or image editor or I would be working on this...

Viteslav's 9-player Essos board immediately comes to mind as well.

Any suggestions?
 
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Erik Amberger
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That was what I had in mind too. Fortunately a friend of mine could print the maps at work, so now we have all three versions in a 1 : 1,5 ratio laminated and they`re perfect to play.
So far we have only played one 8-player game with six experienced players and two rookies. We determined each player`s house and allegiance randomly and one of the new players got Targaryen and the other Stark (who was his secret ally). The Hand (Arryn) however was quite a good player and could provide both of them with advice.
The first round showed a rather conservative move by Targaryen, who only advanced to Harrenhal and consolidated a lot of power and mustered on Dragonstone.
I (Greyjoy) made a deal with Lannister so that I would take Riverrun and he Blackwater to have a better position should Targaryen decide to march on us. There was a lot of suspicion going on in the first round but no battles were fought.
The second round brought a Supply and the only Clash of Kings for six rounds or so (thanks to the Hand), which left Targaryen on the first position on every track. Additionally no support orders were allowed. From there on Targaryen pushed hard against Baratheon, who lost Tarth and Shipbreaker Bay and almost lost Storm`s End, but Stannis saved the day against Rhaegar.
All the while Arryn (the Hand) reinforced his position and affiliation with Targaryen, while using Stark (who later made some harsh mistakes and lost his entire fleet) as a puppet.
Around round eight it was clear Targaryen would lose the game, when he underestimated Kevan Lannister, who sacked King`s Landing with 6 Lannister Footmen. Eventually he recaptured it, but lost his sea and almost everything except his two capitals.
After that even Arryn turned on the King and promptly was dismissed as Hand in favor of Lannister. Needless to say it did not turn the game around.
The final stage felt like the base game again. Everyone was fighting for castles and trying to outscore his personal opponent. Arryn almost got to seven castles, but Balon stopped him in an even battle in Seagard. I had easily achieved my own goal, surpassing Baratheon, who really had to take a lot, so the game ended with four winners.

Everyone (except Stark, he just felt betrayed by Arryn) agreed it was a thrilling game and there could have been more in it for Targaryen. The Hand proved to be very powerful, but this might have been due to his position between Stark and Targaryen. Will have to try out the game with different setups, but all in all it seemed well balanced.
 
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Erik Amberger
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If you want, I can cut out all the areas you have to print, but you would still have to print them in the right size
 
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ed vdh
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What a great job,
i'am studying it and have some questions about it:
- When can the targaryen player changes his hand of king?
only when he plays the aerys card in a battle?

- when you play rhaegar can you leave the battle area free with only an influence token?

- with lysa arryn can you choose a card in your discard pile either in your hand?
thanks a lot for this beautiful variant

 
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Erik Amberger
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Quote:
- When can the targaryen player changes his hand of king?
only when he plays the aerys card in a battle?

Yes. I think this should be enough.

Quote:
- when you play rhaegar can you leave the battle area free with only an influence token?

I haven´t thought about this. But I would also say yes, since you can usually leave a power token, if you "move" your last unit out of an area.

Quote:
- with lysa arryn can you choose a card in your discard pile either in your hand?

No, you discard Lysa and choose another card in your hand, which obviously isn´t possible if you have no other cards in hand.

Quote:
thanks a lot for this beautiful variant

I´m flattered.blush
Are you thinking about printing your own version?
 
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ed vdh
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Thanks for your answers...

I'm working on a 9 players map which would permit to play as much variant as possible.
so i'm doing a translation of all the variant i know... I really like the rule of your variant so i would like to include it in my project.

I still have a question: can a player refuse to become hand of king (to avoid to loose his place on king's court if the targaryen has just one housecard in his hand for exemple )
 
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Erik Amberger
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You don´t refuse the King.
Besides you only lose your position on the Kings Court if someone else becomes Hand.
And of course Targaryen does not have to do anything at all when he plays Aerys.

How far along is your variant? Would like to see it.
 
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ed vdh
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For the moment i'm just grouping all the variant i know and translate it

A fellow i know tried your version with his friend one week ago. They were 7 and played with the no arryn map version.
The targaryen's ally was the tyrell, the baratheon and stark were conquerants and the others were rebels. The greyjoy was again the lannister and lannister again martell.
since the beginning the tyrell was randomly the hand of the king.
The game stopped with the victory of the targaryen at turn 3... The baratheon was completely out...
what do you think about this?

I personnaly think it would be better to play with no greyjoy and a arryn maybe when we are 7
Maybe the initial targaryen's strength is too strong and have to many castle around almost with an additional order of march (other players did not have time enough to arrive on the targaryen)

there is still some question about rhaegar: his march is after opponant's retreat? can he march on a territory containing an opponant's power token and no troups?

edit: the player who played the targaryen thinks that a more difficult objectif shall be find for this family (but not 3 capitals, its quite too much)
 
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Erik Amberger
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Quote:
The game stopped with the victory of the targaryen at turn 3...

Did your friend stop when Targaryen got 7 castles?
If so, it´s no wonder the game ended so early. You don´t have to play to 3 capitals, but Targaryen should have to accomplish more than the other players.
I wonder what Westeros cards came up and what the Hand did with them. Did they use the Tides of Battle cards?

In this game Targaryen has a head start. Each player will eventually have to put pressure on him or he´ll eliminate his opponents one after the other.

Quote:
The baratheon was completely out...
what do you think about this?

I´ll admit Baratheon´s position is a little confined and being so close to Targaryen allows no room for mistakes.
His first priority should be to defend his sea and gain some units early on, so he can take the areas around Blackhaven, which he wants as a secure support location. If he loses Shipbreaker Bay, he has to play defensively and bother with a useless strength 1 card for the rest of the game, so that may never happen. Ideally he builds up a large army, sends it to Tarth in the right moment and then attacks Martell or Targaryen over sea with Selvyn. The problem is that it´s hard for him to get the needed supply.
For that he has some really strong house cards though and before facing Robert Baratheon as a potential strength 6 card even Targaryen will think twice. Another solution would be adding a barrel to The Reach or The Boneway.
In your case Tyrell was Ally and Hand, which is a pretty bad situation for Baratheon from the start. Peace with Martell is a must then.
On the other side of the continent Greyjoy needs to control his urge to smash Lannister and let him keep Targaryen in check. Maybe he can sneak in over the Trident later. I think I´m going to use the T6-setup for Lannister the next time we play. I also wouldn´t use the additional march order for 7-player games.

Quote:
I personnaly think it would be better to play with no greyjoy and a arryn maybe when we are 7

You could try to kick out Greyjoy. Maybe close off Pyke and Ironman´s Bay. With Arryn and Targaryen around there should still be enough competition in the Riverlands. I´ve found that Arryn brings some welcome dynamic into sea battles. With four sea areas bordering Targaryen´s sea, he has to conquer one on the first turn. Bay of Crabs gives him some security for Cracklaw Point and Maidenpool, so I think it might be the best move, but it also depends on who is his Ally and Hand.

Quote:
there is still some question about rhaegar: his march is after opponant's retreat? can he march on a territory containing an opponant's power token and no troups?

the text was something like: "...move to any number of adjacent own or unoccupied ares." Is there a definition in the rules, when an area is occupied? Otherwise do it the way you want. I´d probably say yes.
 
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ed vdh
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Colonel Tigh wrote:
Did your friend stop when Targaryen got 7 castles?
If so, it´s no wonder the game ended so early. You don´t have to play to 3 capitals, but Targaryen should have to accomplish more than the other players.


My friend stopped when targaryen got 7 castles but it seems that no one was able to take one of his castle.
What could we purpose for targaryen's aim

Quote:
I wonder what Westeros cards came up and what the Hand did with them. Did they use the Tides of Battle cards?


No recrutment falled in this 3 turns without any action from the hand.
they used the tides of battle cards. the hand feel that the victory was about to arrived and did not want the game to take an end so early so he just changed to have a clash of king to try to do something but the targaryen did not have to bet for the first track. (the targaryen had not made any consolidation since the beginning but starts with ten power token)

Quote:
In this game Targaryen has a head start. Each player will eventually have to put pressure on him or he´ll eliminate his opponents one after the other.

Yes i agree: they just did not have time enough

Quote:
baratheon first priority should be to defend his sea and gain some units early on, so he can take the areas around Blackhaven, which he wants as a secure support location.


sure but if he starts with defensive ambitions, targaryen will quickly develop and still have the possibility to gain some units.

Quote:
In your case Tyrell was Ally and Hand, which is a pretty bad situation for Baratheon from the start.


it would have been worst with a martell as ally

Quote:
On the other side of the continent Greyjoy needs to control his urge to smash Lannister and let him keep Targaryen in check. Maybe he can sneak in over the Trident later. I think I´m going to use the T6-setup for Lannister the next time we play.

yes the greyjoy shouldn't have attack the lannister. But the T6-setup is not the solution i think because lannister could also be the targaryen's ally.
Changes must concern targaryen or baratheon only.
i think the baratheon's position should be change: the knight of storm end could be move in blackhaven so that baratheon can gain unit with a consolidation and still move.

the real problem with raegahar was to know if he move again before of after retreat: if he move before retreat he can surround and be very destructive targaryen family already have lots of sword icons...

The targaryen had 5 castles at the end of the first turn.
 
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Aaron T
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Any programmer out there that wants to make this a fiddle map???

Edit: Fiddle map is the electronic map that people use online in the forums to play the game. Anyone can move the pieces on the map with this kind of map.
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ed vdh
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art321 wrote:
Any programmer out there that wants to make this a fiddle map???


@ aaron: sorry for my poor english but i don't understand the meaning of "fiddle map"?can you tell it another way?
@erik: I just reed again all the rules and i concluded that in fact, the game musn't end when targaryen arrived and hold 7 castles, is that right? that must be the big mistake they maid.
But i also read that in your 8 player's experience, the baratheon took a lot even if your targaryen was a beginner (even if his start was pretty good in my opinion). maybe should the baratheon have a better starting position.
 
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Erik Amberger
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Getting 7 castles is much too easy for Targaryen. As you said yourself he would only have to beat a single enemy and take his castles.
If you set three (or maybe just two) enemy capitals as his goal, he needs to spread out his units and can´t focus on just one enemy, which is why i prefer this ruling to just a higher amount of castles. But if you want to do it this way, consider setting a limit of at least 9 or 10 castles he needs to win.
This way most Targaryen wins will probably only be after turn 10, so every house should have enough time to prepare and move against Targaryen.

Quote:
But i also read that in your 8 player's experience, the baratheon took a lot even if your targaryen was a beginner (even if his start was pretty good in my opinion). maybe should the baratheon have a better starting position.


If I remember correctly, Targaryen conquered Baratheon´s sea on turn two, after an overwhelming clash of kings and the Westeros III card that forbade support orders. Maybe mustering a second ship into Shipbreaker Bay with a special defense order and playing a higher card (i think it was Thoros even though Targaryen only marched with +0) could have saved him (we also played with ToB cards), but this turn of events was pretty much a death sentence for Baratheon. He had luck afterwards, defending with Stannis against Rhaegar, when he marched on Storm´s End.
And in the end Targaryen lost the war, because he neglected expansion on his other fronts.
But how would you change Baratheon´s starting position to protect him from such an assault?
His position on the tracks is really good in the beginning, but of course that doesn´t matter much once a clash comes up and there he has a little problem consolidating a lot of power. Moving the knight to Blackhaven helps him to fortify his position on the mainland early, but that isn´t his main concern in the beginning. It´s his own responsibility to defend his sea. If that means mustering a fleet of 2 or 3 ships in Shipbreaker Bay or taking a small risk, I think it´s a position Baratheon can be okay with.
 
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Aaron T
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art321 wrote:
Any programmer out there that wants to make this a fiddle map???

Edit: Fiddle map is the electronic map that people use online in the forums to play the game. Anyone can move the pieces on the map with this kind of map.
 
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ed vdh
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art321 wrote:
Any programmer out there that wants to make this a fiddle map???


sorry, i'm not able to do such a job...

Colonel Tigh wrote:
Moving the knight to Blackhaven helps him to fortify his position on the mainland early, but that isn´t his main concern in the beginning. It´s his own responsibility to defend his sea. If that means mustering a fleet of 2 or 3 ships in Shipbreaker Bay or taking a small risk, I think it´s a position Baratheon can be okay with.


i think mustering a fleet is the most important choice to do for the baratheon. But it means that he can't really move whereas the targaryen has got lot of possibility to progress.
the other problem is that at turn 2 the targaryen is also able to take storm ends by land. So i worked a little bit on your map (also on arryn position to have bigger territory)
wath do you think about this to avoid targaryen easy landing?
http://rpggeek.com/image/2378226/pazu92?size=large

edit: if you look at my gallery i did also an other map with some changes for the south seas areas to help a little bit the baratheon and to avoid a definitive extermination if targaryen attack ship breakerbay
 
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Erik Amberger
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Your first version of the map clearly gives Baratheon an advantage over mine. Blackhaven seems like a good area for consolidation and even the Kingswood (you mixed up the names there) seems worthwile, because it can´t be raided or conquered by sea. The extra barrel helps to get to 4 or even 5 supply, which would be really useful for Baratheon.
But does he need such a good position?
You fear that Targaryen might conquer Storm´s End by land on turn two.
I highly doubt that, since he would need an army of at least two knights with a + 1 march order to win there, if Baratheon left Storm´s End unprotected and both players play their highest cards, not considering a Clash of Kings. So a successful siege by land would require either very bad play by Baratheon or a really large Targaryen army, which he simply can´t afford to send there in the beginning of the game.
But now look at Targaryen´s position. He´s lost a barrel setting him at 2 supply like everyone else. Baratheon is well shielded, if he concentrates on defending his sea, so Targaryen has to look north or west to conquer valuable areas and not waste his units on fights with Baratheon who won´t be taking part in the main battle until a few rounds into the game. In my experience Targaryen has to expand very fast as long as the territories in the center of the map are unoccupied. If he does that, he can keep them by placing raids and supporting as many own areas as possible, then slowly trying to take control of everything around Blackwater. If he waits until turn two, in the worst case there might already be Tyrell, Lannister or even Greyjoy armies supporting each other so he will never be able to get there again.

Your second map cuts Martell off from Targaryen, which I think will turn out to be an advantage for Targaryen. He doesn´t have to fear Doran Martell´s ability and his own sea will be safer with one less sea area bordering it.

Try out your maps, if you think they´ll make for a better game.
If you want to play my version though, I think you will see that not every game will turn out the way your first one did. Just like a Lannister player needs to learn how to survive against Greyjoy, one needs to understand how to play Baratheon against Targaryen.
 
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Renan Stigliani
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Hi All,

I quickly wrote a variant based on this one. It doesn't use custom maps or cards, just modified rules (following the lines of the diplomacy set out here) on top of Raw or T6, opniiosn greatly welcomed: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1456797/needs-opinions-rebe...
 
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