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Subject: Beating Terran rss

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Ryan Horwath

Lakewood
Colorado
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So, I love this game. And not just because of the Starcraft flavor, but I love how it is as a battle game. However, I have one problem. Beating Terran. Specifically battle cruisers with science vessels. Already high in health, the Yamato cannon and defense matrix makes them extremely difficult to kill. Plus if you try any funny business, you get the shockwave, which often gets recharged. Plus the can enhance attack with irradiate. This becomes especially tough when going after heroes, especially general dugalle. The get extra health. This makes them health of 11 normally. No unit can do that, especially without some help from reinforcement cards. So, what is one to do? I was just wondering how other people countered this, with the different races. Thanks.
 
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Vasilis
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Wow, battle cruisers and science vessels and Yamato cannon AND defense matrix. You sure aren't attacking much during the first 3-4 turns, are you?

A Zerg player will never give you the time to ever get to use all that, he will overrun your units and destroy your bases while you are trying to get to the ultra super duper battlecruiser with science vessel support.

Protoss can do the same with less units but more hard hitting firepower while you build up the 'uberunit'.

I'm pretty positive that all your problems are because the Terran player's opponents are leaving him alone for too long. In a typical Starcraft game, there should be battle even during the first turn. You just cannot reach that tech level that you described, you won't have the time before you get overrun.
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Ian Madsen
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I agree, this game is designed for early and frequent conflict. Players at the table should attack players who try to turtle as attackers have the advantage over defenders.
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Ryan Horwath

Lakewood
Colorado
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Thanks. I think this is somewhat how we play but probably a little less attacking. However, whom do you go after if given a choice between the turtler and the one gaining massive conquest points. Also, what if the person is extremely out of your way? Like when mengsk creates a natural corner of the galaxy with typhoon?
 
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Jody Lent
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A couple of ideas:


1. Typhon

"Bowling alley galaxies" are often not much fun anwyway--the best maps, IMHO and experience, are the most interconnected. I would say avoid using the promo--it compounds an existing problem.

2. Heroes

Remember that health bonuses do NOT stack. Source: last paragraph here http://boardgamegeek.com/article/3179663#3179663

So if they have a Battlecruiser 8/8 card, and it's a hero unit, and it's got Sci Vessel backup, and they repair... the total health bonus is only the highest of all of those, which makes 10 the highest possible health value for a Battlecruiser, hero or not.

While still high, 10 is very doable if you have +2 from support/reinforcement cards.

Units that can do it (assuming +2 support):
Mutalisk w/ 8/7 card
Scourge w/ 2 cards
Devourer with 2 cards + 2 Impv. Flyer Attack = 4 cards

Battlecruiser (derp) w/ 3 cards + 2 Yamato = 5 cards
Goliath w/ 2 cards
Valkyrie w/ 2 cards

Dragoon w/ 2 cards
Corsair w/ 2 cards
Scout w/ 3 cards
Carrier w/ 3 cards + 3 Inc. Carr. Capacity
Archon w/ 4 cards


ARRANGING the +2 support can be tricky, but you have cheap options:

Zerg :
Cheerleader card (if supported, +1 attack)
Hydras

Terran :
Marines
Lockdown

Protoss:
Singularity charge
Dragoons
Psi Storm
Hallucination

The real trick is to understand that the game favors the attacker--meaning if you can outmaneuver, you get to attack and thereby often win. The importance of maneuver grows in the late game, ESPECIALLY if you let people turtle. Don't let yourself get out-stacked or stack-capped with your orders.


Someone being out of the way is best solved at galaxy setup. We have scrapped a game before because it's obvious before the first order goes down who will win. It requires a certain degree of "gentleman's game," but fans of 3-hour board games are willing, in my experience, to do a bit to ensure an interesting game, so long as it's done BEFORE any units or tokens are placed.




3. Beating Air Terran in General

The game is won with conquest points. The best ways to take down Air Terran are to A) ignore air if you can, and B)if you cannot, make like difficult for him:

Use splash, use cheap ground guys that can hit air, and make ALL the use of your spellcasters you can.


This third part deserves more thought, as Air Terran probably IS the "best" strategy in the game, if only in the way that T was the "best" race among the progamers in SC/BW.
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Jonathan Folkert
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It is not true that health bonuses do not stack. The only bonus that does not stack with others is the one given by the guard token (placed with the defend order). Thus, it is possible to have a hero battlecruiser with 12 health (9 from Yamato, 1 from Defense Matrix, 1 from Repair, and one for being The Norad). We'll ignore the fringe possibility of a Flawless Defense Plan in addition to all this.

Beating this isn't as difficult as you might imagine. As Zerg, a Scourge (or Devourer) supported by two Hydralisks and a special mobilize will do the trick, for example. This doesn't even include the "+1 attack with a supporting unit".

As Protoss, an Archon or Carrier supported by a High Templar and Psionic Storm (again, with a special mobilize) will do it, among other combinations.

Now if you're in a position in the later game where you simply can't muster 12 attack in a single given skirmish as the attacker when it's needed, it sounds like the other player has already amassed an overwhelming advantage, in which case you might have to just concede the game.
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Jody Lent
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KirovThug wrote:
It is not true that health bonuses do not stack. The only bonus that does not stack with others is the one given by the guard token (placed with the defend order). Thus, it is possible to have a hero battlecruiser with 12 health (9 from Yamato, 1 from Defense Matrix, 1 from Repair, and one for being The Norad). We'll ignore the fringe possibility of a Flawless Defense Plan in addition to all this.


Iiiiinteresting. We've gone back and forth on this one, and I'd love to have a definitive ruling. Can you source that? I don't have the rules in front of me atm.

KirovThug wrote:

Beating this isn't as difficult as you might imagine... ...
Now if you're in a position in the later game where you simply can't muster 12 attack in a single given skirmish as the attacker when it's needed, it sounds like the other player has already amassed an overwhelming advantage, in which case you might have to just concede the game.



THIS. Exactly this.
 
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MisuVir
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MightyToucan wrote:
Iiiiinteresting. We've gone back and forth on this one, and I'd love to have a definitive ruling. Can you source that? I don't have the rules in front of me atm.


I don't recall any rules stating that you can not stack health bonuses from cards and heroes.

It is only in the guard token section that it is mentioned that it can't be used in conjunction with other health-providing abilities. I find it easier to say that rather than giving a bonus of 2 HP for each skirmish, it instead sets the minimum HP bonus for each skirmish to 2 HP. If you have cards that exceed the 2 HP minimum bonus, those are applied instead.
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John Jr. Rosbach
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MightyToucan wrote:
Iiiiinteresting. We've gone back and forth on this one, and I'd love to have a definitive ruling. Can you source that? I don't have the rules in front of me atm.


Actually, that last paragraph you directed us to actually said (in short) you either use the Defense Token bonus or the Gain bonus or bonuses.


Now, Battlecruisers are a nasty thing to take down. However the catch is that they are expensive. I typically try to lure the expensive units into some kind of trap. Like with splash damage. My friend actually "Yamato Bat" my Battle Cruisers once. I attacked a position I thought I could take easily. He used the secondary Defense stat on Yamato Cannon with a defense boost. I lost the battle, and because I had to destroy my transport to make the the attack,my little cruisers went floating back to space where they popped in then vacuum. Losing that battle actually cost me the game, but it was funny losing that way.
 
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