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Subject: Correct OP 1 Scoring? rss

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Jonathan Bruce
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What is the correct method for scoring OP 1?

Chris said assimilated cards are not counted as part of the surviving fleet, how does that look during score time?

Lets say Player 1 and 2 both had a 120 fleet to begin with. At the end of the round Player 1 lost 10 points worth of upgrades to the BCT, discarded 5 points worth of upgrades and lost 30 points to ships being destroyed, leaving player 1 with 75 points worth of ships/upgrades still in play.

What is players 2 score?

 
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Kristoff Bergenholm
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DonMegel wrote:
What is the correct method for scoring OP 1?

Chris said assimilated cards are not counted as part of the surviving fleet, how does that look during score time?

Lets say Player 1 and 2 both had a 120 fleet to begin with. At the end of the round Player 1 lost 10 points worth of upgrades to the BCT, discarded 5 points worth of upgrades and lost 30 points to ships being destroyed, leaving player 1 with 75 points worth of ships/upgrades still in play.

What is players 2 score?



It depends who discarded those five points of upgrades - If Player 1 discarded them as the cost of an effect, they count as surviving if the ship they were on survived.

If Player 2 forced their discard, then they're gone no matter what.

Player 2 would have a score of 40 - 45, depending. (Build total of 120 minus the opponents' surviving points. (75 or 80))
 
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Will Sanchez
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Player 2 would score 40 points, assuming that the 5 points worth of upgrades was discarded for their own effect and not part of the ship that was destroyed.

What seems sillier to me is that I chewed through two enemy Borg Ablative Armor upgrades with damage, but it counts as technically "being discarded by it's own effect". My own was assimilated by the BCT so my opponent got the points for no work, while I got no points for quite a bit of work. I'm going to start packing multiple copies of Superior Intellect man...

 
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Jonathan Bruce
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So if the BCT takes an upgrade, or the opposing player forces an upgrade be discarded, those points are just gone?

I assume the full 120 points would be awarded if all the ships were destroyed or do we still remove the assimilated upgrades?
 
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Eric Little
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DonMegel wrote:
So if the BCT takes an upgrade, or the opposing player forces an upgrade be discarded, those points are just gone?

I assume the full 120 points would be awarded if all the ships were destroyed or do we still remove the assimilated upgrades?


Everything the Borg cube token takes counts as being destroyed. It no longer is attached to the ship it came from.

I got in the habit of moving the cards the BCT took to a separate location. That way at the end of the round I could look at what was still in front of me as my surviving fleet.

So, in your hypothetical situation: 10 points were taken away by the BCT. They are no longer in front of me. I also had a 5 point upgrade that I used and it required me to discard it for the effect. I flip the card over and tuck it beneath the ship card of the ship that used it. It is still in front of me. During the match my blind booster ship got destroyed. The ship and all its upgrades were worth 30 points.

So, the surviving fleet are any ships still alive and any of their upgrades that are still in front of me. I take the maximum fleet build (120 points) and subtract my surviving fleet (80 points) to come up with number of fleet points my opponent receives: 40 points.
 
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Jonathan Bruce
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What if player 1 lost 10 points to the BCT and 110 points to player 2 (all of player 1 ships destroyed)? Would player 2 only get 110 points?
 
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Kristoff Bergenholm
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DonMegel wrote:
What if player 1 lost 10 points to the BCT and 110 points to player 2 (all of player 1 ships destroyed)? Would player 2 only get 110 points?


You don't seem to understand...

Scoring is Build Total, minus the opponents surviving points.

If Player 1 had 10pts assimilated by the Borg, and all of their ships were destroyed, they have no points remaining, and their opponent gets 120 points.

 
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Jonathan Bruce
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So if your opponent has 80 points left on the board, it doesn't matter if the Borg took the other 40, or they blew up, or were voluntarily discarded? You still score 40 points?
 
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Kristoff Bergenholm
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DonMegel wrote:
So if your opponent has 80 points left on the board, it doesn't matter if the Borg took the other 40, or they blew up, or were voluntarily discarded? You still score 40 points?


No.

Cards that were voluntarily discarded for their effect count as surviving, and are put face-down underneath the ship they were on to reflect this.

If that ship is later destroyed, then all cards that were a part of that ship are considered destroyed. (Reinforcement board shenanigans are another story, and I'm not going into that.)
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Scott Kelly
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Don't let the noobs at the shop confused you my friend:

Say my opponent has the following build:
Cube (46)
Picard (6 + 1)
Hull Armor #1 (7)
Hull Armor #2 (7)
Feedback Pulse (8)
FLAGSHIP (10)
(Something else that was 4 SP that I can't remember)
89 total SP

Then 30 SP for the Blind Booster.


- all the blind booster gets blown up
- then everything from the ship (including Picard) gets assimilated (not voluntarily discarded as an effect by him), leaving only the Cube (46) with Flagship (10)

120 max SP - 46 - 10 = 64 SP earned by the opponent

Hypothetically, say the Feedback Pulse (8) was voluntarily used by the opponent instead of being assimilated. Then:
...Cube (46) + Flagship (10) + Feedback Pulse (8)
120 - 46 - 10 - 8 = 56 SP earned by the opponent
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Jonathan Bruce
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I just want to make sure I understand scoring so that I can explain it to those with questions.

So, if a ship has upgrades involuntary go away via assimilation or enemy action they do not count for score UNLESS the ship they belonged to was destroyed? If destroyed, then all the points for that ship are scored?
 
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Waspinator
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If you use a card that discards itself, your opponent only gets those points if they destroy the ship it was on.

If you lose cards to the token assimilating them, your opponent gets those points.
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Scott Kelly
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DonMegel wrote:
I just want to make sure I understand scoring so that I can explain it to those with questions.

So, if a ship has upgrades involuntary go away via assimilation or enemy action they do not count for score UNLESS the ship they belonged to was destroyed? If destroyed, then all the points for that ship are scored?


Anything Assimilated or Forced-discarded by an opponent (say Assimilation Tubules, Crosis, etc) does not "Survive" for the original player and do NOT count. It's just a big empty spot where it use to be. It's more about Survival than something getting Destroyed.

Anything you voluntarily use a Discard effect on (Feedback Pulse, Interphase Generator, etc) still counts as Surviving unless the ship gets blown up. (Think of it as a Tech, Weapon, Crew, etc that just gets friend upon use and it takes an extended period of time to get back operational...but the equipment is still there).

There are some people who will question the rules regardless just so they have excuses. It happens in EVERY game. It may or may not be thematic, but it is the rules. Everyone plays under the same set of them. One thing I learned in my basketball coaching career observing refs is sometimes you just have to say "it is what it is, whether you like it or not" and move on...and if they don't want to move on, you tell them to suck it up or you'll be in the locker room. If you let people continue pushing rulings and they know they can push you, they'll keep doing it.
 
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Jonathan Bruce
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Wait, Scott seems to be in disagreement with TheWaspinator. Which one is correct? If the ship us destroyed do the all the upgrades that had been on the ship count for scoring?
 
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Waspinator
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From the OP rules in every scenario PDF:
Quote:
FLEET POINTS:
Players receive FLEET POINTS at the end of every Battle Round. Fleet Points are used to break ties of players’ Win/Loss records for purposes of determining round pairings and final ranks. Fleet Points are equal to the current month's maximum Fleet Build number MINUS the number of SP left in your opponent's surviving fleet. A player who receives a Bye will receive a number of Fleet Points equal to the average of all other players’ Fleet Points for that round (rounded up). Fleet Points are recorded on players’ Fleet Build Sheets as well as on the Score Sheet.

SURVIVING FLEET:
A player's surviving Fleet includes:
1) any of that player's ships that are not destroyed,
2) any Upgrades those ships are still equipped with, and 3) any Upgrades that are placed under the ship card. NOTE: Any Upgrades that a player discards to use for their text ability are placed under the ship card on which they were equipped. Any Upgrades that are under a ship that was destroyed are also destroyed.


If the Borg or any enemy make you discard something, it does not go under the ship card and is not part of the surviving fleet. If you discard something for its own effect, it goes under the ship card and counts as surviving as long as the ship does.
 
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Jonathan Bruce
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Ok. That makes sense. But what happens when the ship is destroyed? Do the assimilated upgrades count at that point or are those points lost forever, reducing the total number of points that can be earned?
 
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Waspinator
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What matters is what's surviving, not what a player kills. The BCT assimilating something means it is not part of the surviving fleet and the enemy gets those points no matter what happens to that ship after that.
 
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Jonathan Bruce
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I think I understand. When the Borg take a card, or your enemy makes you discard a card, it counts as points for your opponent, but if YOU discard an upgrade (like BoF) then it does not count as points for the other player. Destroying a ship removes the voluntary discards from the game and thus adds them, and everything else on the ship, to the other player's score.

Thats how we ran the OP, as per Scott's explanation, but my head was not wrapping around it for some reason. Thank you.
 
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Kenn Mikos
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DonMegel wrote:
I think I understand. When the Borg take a card, or your enemy makes you discard a card, it counts as points for your opponent, but if YOU discard an upgrade (like BoF) then it does not count as points for the other player. Destroying a ship removes the voluntary discards from the game and thus adds them, and everything else on the ship, to the other player's score.

Thats how we ran the OP, as per Scott's explanation, but my head was not wrapping around it for some reason. Thank you.


You've got the right idea, but you're coming at it backwards. All that matters for scoring Fleet Points are the cards that are part of a player's surviving fleet. Doesn't matter who killed what, or who destroyed what.

Fleet Points = (Fleet Limit (100 or 120, depending on the OP)) - (Opponent's Surviving Fleet).

That's it.

Ship still on the board at the end of the match? Survived.

Upgrade discarded to use its ability, but the ship it was on is still in play? Survived.

Crew ganked by Korax or Bochra? Didn't survive.

Captain killed in the Captain's Battle in the Arena? Didn't Survive.

Upgrade stolen by Superior Intellect or Ass Tubes? Didn't Survive.

Anything Assimilated by BCT? Didn't survive.

So yes, things taken by the Borg "count for points", but it's not because they're "added to the other player's score", it's because they're not part of the "Surviving Fleet" in the scoring formula. Thinking of it as "adding points" makes scoring a real pain to get straight in your head (I speak from experience here).

Just think, "What's still in play here?", then subtract that from 100 (or 120). It's much simpler.
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