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Subject: Collective3 Tac Cube not already good enough wizkids? rss

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Kevin Roberson
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So reading through collective 3 I notice the BCT smashing into a ship causes 2 damage and action loss UNLESS THAT SHIP IS A TAC CUBE or a flagship Sphere or Soong.

Further down I see that you get a bonus to attack dice if all of your ships are closer to the BCT than all of your opponents. Well that would be very easy to manage if you only have 1 ship, your maneuver dial happens to be identical to the BCTs, and you're not afraid of getting bumped, now wouldn't it.

So uh... what gives. The Borg not powerful enough Wizkids? Elizabeth Shelby just too good? Them upcoming ENT era ships just blowin' up too many cubes in playtesting?
 
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charles skrobis
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Honestly, if you run one of the later events for Collective month 3, you could choose the enterprise-e, or even options from Borg Queen Vessel Prime. So in 2 months, the ships, upgrades, and general meta will have shifted when 2 months means 6 more ships before factoring resources and prizes like the gencon promos.

Next problem with this, the lose actions part only happens if you haven't finished all your actions yet. So since it moves at skill 10, just don't put Piccard with Admiral Kirk, cause skill 11 makes that a problem. Past that, I don't see klingons with a high skill of 8 having to go back and undo all the actions they already took.

Finally, I have a feeling that big weapons like transphasic torpedoes are really good options, mostly to try and jump past a stage of the defense dice it would roll. So if I can ramp them up and get 10 damage through when it has 6 defense dice, we skip the 8 defense dice stage and take the BCT now, and just have to fight over who gets the sphere. Past that, it's punching through cloak level dice while you can still target lock but it's not losing shields.

The final thing for the Borg tactical cube is that feedback pulse is likely 1 of the best Borg upgrades for this, because the BCT always re-rolls blanks and battle stations, so choose yourself for the 10 dice attack, 11 if you made range 1, and do like 4 or 5 damage back, just huge point costs, limited tech slots, and aux power tokens, and then your opponent gets control. Though the real joke is that those aren't Borg specific and other factions can get better tech slots. Then we get anti matter mines from the fed to move it back and forth to get 4 dice of hits every other turn, cause I get control and can move it right back.

But most of these are just ideas I've had already for the event, when there are still places that haven't had collective month 1 stuff arrive yet. So there will likely be many a ruling and ship updates with options, strategy discussions, and general ways people have found to cheese the scimitar scenario being transferred over. (Having been with people who have said the scimitar was too easy and imposed a 3 hull maximum, this doesn't seem that hard to beat, so much as lining up the kill shots consistently rather than cooperating to get mutual victory.)

So I'm leaning fed heavy between transphasic torpedoes and anti matter mines to line things up. Though the enterprise-e will probably be a better ship, and I want to try era pure star trek enterprise at least once, just to point out that if Archer can take a ship with polarized hull like that and beat your borg, there are no excuses. Though that'll be when I'm practicing and really just looking to screw with people. (Might even post a bat rep just to mess with everyone's heads if it does well enough, but I'd need to see the pack before even speculating how far I can actually run with it.)

Good luck with the trial runs before the event in 2 months.
 
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Brad Whiteman
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Just making a guess no mines for month 3 again since it is co-op again.
 
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Nicolivoldkif wrote:
Just making a guess no mines for month 3 again since it is co-op again.


Correct, mines are out for both month 2 AND 3.
 
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James Patrick
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The BCT also has to re-roll all Blanks and Battle Stations as well.

Don't forget about the Borg Sphere Token (BST). Once the Cube is destroyed, it has a baby. A range 3, 5 die throwing, baby. If the BST goes off the board before it's destroyed, all players lose 30 Fleet Points.

So. Do you mess with your opponent or do you really have to work together on this one? Keep in mind that the BST could end up in the center of the board, depending on circumstances, and then take off at straight 4 for the edge it is "furthest away from". If it makes it, both players lose fleet points. Haven't calculated the maximum or minimum number of turns it will take to hit the edge. Or, how many hits per turn it will take to destroy it, factoring in 2 evade dice for the BST on every strike. I don't have the variable formula for factoring oddly shaped, made in China dice.

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Honestly, if you run one of the later events for Collective month 3, you could choose the enterprise-e, or even options from Borg Queen Vessel Prime. So in 2 months, the ships, upgrades, and general meta will have shifted when 2 months means 6 more ships before factoring resources and prizes like the gencon promos.


Sure, but what if they are just average ships. Well, if things keep going the way they're going, the Borg thing will be spectacular while the Enterprise-E might be average. Who knows? (That was just a rant. Actual results may vary.)
 
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Kevin Roberson
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The E won't be out. It got delayed. Enterprise nx comes out in september, ENT-E in October.

As stated above, mines are out. So your remaining argument is "it's not that bad because transphasics and some ship that's on par with the Praetus" uh huh.. The fact remains that these things would be balancing factors if all things were equal. But they're not equal.

Whether or not transphasics balance out the borg in a regular game, wizkids saw fit to give the borg a strict advantage in this one that no other faction enjoys.
 
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charles skrobis
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Well, if you're only looking to talk about which ships don't lose actions for collisions and such, then I can factor in the Jem'haddar Battleship.

So if I can control the borg half the game, and can predict the sphere token perfectly, the arc is a lot easier to leverage. It also can hit like a truck, so I'm very tempted to run that, but will need to plan out more before locking in.

Lastly, every enterprise era ship that came out, has had some level of game change out here. Be it the praetus with cloaked mines, the Somraw for the klingon faction flagship to cloak, or the vulcans to put scan tokens by ships and flip cloaks. (They used it with self destruct sequence to and spock effects with his worf to wreck days, worse with the no tokens in activation because no cloaks or battle station or evades.) So I have a feeling there's a thing or 2 in the NX-01 enterprise that can combo hard and do something completely shenanigans, even if it's just the helm officer that adds more evade token effects.
 
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Kevin Roberson
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Oh you're quite right, I had missed that the new Jem'hadar ship had 7 hull too.
 
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I haven't really tested this scenario out yet because, well, its still almost two months away. Granted with no new wave in August, things will probably be very much the same then, but in every scenario where people claimed the Borg have had a substantial advantage you could quite capably build something else to beat it. So I am not too concerned, particularly since the "advantage" here is not all that substantial.

Also I'm sure the NX Enterprise will have upgrades that are worth using here. Federation ships tend to be pretty good about that. I wouldn't be too surprised if one could find a use for the ship itself in this scenario. I plan to try it in testing once we get the preview sometime in August.

Turbowombat wrote:
Oh you're quite right, I had missed that the new Jem'hadar ship had 7 hull too.


Not the new one -- the battleship from wave 3. Though with a flagship, the battle cruiser (or Warbird/Valdore/Negh'var) could have 7 as well.
 
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H. Tucker Cobey
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Turbowombat wrote:
Oh you're quite right, I had missed that the new Jem'hadar ship had 7 hull too.


...And since it's now possible to Weyoun-CS with no faction penalties (which allows it for many players of ship-pure or faction-pure venues) thanks to Elim Garak, that immediately jumps to the forefront as a potential.

In other words, Borg and Weyoun/CS using an incredibly hard to get promo card are both immune to the collision effect. Ain't this game grand?
 
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tsuyoshikentsu wrote:
Turbowombat wrote:
Oh you're quite right, I had missed that the new Jem'hadar ship had 7 hull too.


...And since it's now possible to Weyoun-CS with no faction penalties (which allows it for many players of ship-pure or faction-pure venues) thanks to Elim Garak, that immediately jumps to the forefront as a potential.

In other words, Borg and Weyoun/CS using an incredibly hard to get promo card are both immune to the collision effect. Ain't this game grand?


Good luck with that.
 
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charles skrobis
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I still think the biggest thing is that if it moves at skill 10, I don't undo the actions I already took at lower skill, but that's just how I'm interpreting bumping right now.
 
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Brian Johnsen
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yourmonkey06 wrote:
Not the new one -- the battleship from wave 3. Though with a flagship, the battle cruiser (or Warbird/Valdore/Negh'var) could have 7 as well.


The bump effect happens for ships with a hull value of 7 or less, which means you need at least an 8 to be safe. So you need a flagship Jem'Hadar Battleship class, a flagship Borg Type 03 class, a Borg Tactical Cube class, or a flagship Borg Sphere class.
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